Mike Hardy Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 An interesting thought Martin, never thought of a composite solution - silver solarfilm on the flat panels and tissue on the complex shapes. one worry though with solarfilm the surface has to be 'prefect'. do you guys use an iron or hot ait gun to apply the film or both? I am Appling a sealing coat over the air frame comprising 50/50 sanding sealer rub down then a 50/50 coat of none shrink dope and final rub down, this provides a sealed surface to apply tissue using 50/50 PVA and water or silver solarfilm. Colin, I have had my fair share if warping on this particular project especially with the wing panels and that is just being left in the open for a couple of weeks!! Mike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 Silver Solarfilm does affect radio signals - David Davis did some test on this a few months back on here. He found it made no difference at all. Re tissue and dope vs glass and PolyC. Well I only went the later route because I hadn't used PolyC before and wanted to have a go! One advantage of the Mass Build is that they are quick builds and you have the opportunity to experiment a bit. Which do I prefer? Well ultimately both will give you a good finish if you put the work in, but I think tissue and dope has a slight advantage here giving a slightly better finish for fewer coats. PolyC scores in ease of use I think. Its water based so no smell and easy brush cleaning. Regarding durability - well not much to pick between them, tissue and dope might be just a bit more "ding proof" - but it really is marginal. So I'd say - having tried both - you pays yers money and takes yer choice, though if you have a separate shed so SWMBO won't complain about the smell, I'd probably stick with tissue and dope. But then I like the smell of dope! BEB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Hardy Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 Hi BEB, Just one point, you state 'Solarfilm does affect radio signals' then you go on to say David 'He found it made no difference at all' bit confused here!! I have no problem with dope smell my shed is 17 miles from my partner's home!!. Have you rebuilt your Tucano? Mike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken anderson. Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 Silver Solarfilm does affect radio signals - David Davis did some test on this a few months back on here. He found it made no difference at all. ............................................................................................ I couldn't understand the sentence by BEB either.......I've used the 'chrome' profilm and that does effect the signal.....and states in the inst's that it has a layer of tin foil in it.... ken Anderson...ne...1 signal dept. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 I meant - "does not affect" - sorry! rebuild - no moved on, all the bits are now in the Dawn Flyer! BEB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Hardy Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 OK BEB - just contacted Solarfilm they say it contains an aluminium powder which 'may' affect radio signals, but not sure at 2.4GHz. They say best advised to put an antenna outside the airframe. - bit of a pain though. What is this Dawn Flyer? Mike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Leighfield Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 I got the impression that it's just a typo in BEB's email and he meant to say "does not"? Talking Tucanos, I took mine to Greenacres again this year, but on the first flight attempt it lost power early and I had to land it in the back field and walk. Thought it was a battery that I must have forgotten to charge, didn't bother again and took it home after totalling the Pushy Cat through flying out of range (no excuse, park-flyer rx) with another long walk. Not a good Greenacres for me. We had our electric fly-in at Fradley on 07 September, ideal for the (Sea) Tucano, so I went to the field a couple of days in advance to get some practice in with it. Connected up, checked the motor, it ticked and jerked a couple of times and a load of smoke came out of it, so that was the reason for the aborted flight at Greenacres! I should have looked before. Anyway, it needs a new motor, so I think I'll go for a lower Kv with a four blade prop. It's been so over-powered up to now that I can sacrifice a bit of efficiency for the sake of appearances and a quieter life. It's definitely been capable of exceeding Vne going vertically upwards, no wonder I'm a nervous wreck. Going back to the tissue, dope and paint approach, I've used this for the Tucano based Seafang as well, which I'm now in the process of finishing off at last. Having got to quite like the 17g glass cloth and Ezekote on the Depron Barnstormer, last night I decided to apply this to the underside of the Seafang nose and underwing radiators because there is no undercarriage and they will be the sliding surfaces on the grass. I thought this might be a good idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 Posted by Mike Hardy on 17/09/2014 10:49:55: What is this Dawn Flyer? Mike. The 2014 Mass Build - catch up Mike! We're about to start the nominations for the 2015 Mass Build! BEB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin McIntosh Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 Mike, Never ever use a heat gun on solid panels. The film needs to be stuck to the wood. I use a travel iron for this. If you have already coated it with dope it would be a very bad idea to apply film. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Hardy Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 Point taken BEB!! Martin I had not realised that these iron on films need to be applied to bare wood only. Thanks for that info - I will continue with tissue. It just goes to show how important these forum's are, we lesser experienced can tap into the knowledge of others who have a wealth of knowledge/experience. Mike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Newton Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 Just been reading these recent posts. Thought I would contribute my experiences. I have used both silver solarfilm and silver Oracover (profilm) with Spektrum 2.4GHz equipment on several models and there was no noticeable affect even at long distance with the receiver and aerial(s) inboard. Hope this helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Winks Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 Posted by Mike Hardy on 17/09/2014 12:24:06: Point taken BEB!! Martin I had not realised that these iron on films need to be applied to bare wood only. Thanks for that info - I will continue with tissue. It just goes to show how important these forum's are, we lesser experienced can tap into the knowledge of others who have a wealth of knowledge/experience. Mike. Mike I've got to take issue with the guys who insist that solar film and similar need to be applied directly to bare wood I always seal my panels, usually with pva based varnish (aka water based varnish, lets not start that discussion again ) and apply with an iron starting at the middle and working out, the varnish being pva based works as a second heat activated adhesive and I've never had a panel bubble even in hot sunlight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin McIntosh Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 Hi Phil, I know we have been here before and point taken but I was just trying to ward Mike off putting it over dope. Maybe a coat of PVA over the dope would work but I would not like to try it. Much better finish with tissue/paint anyway but a lot more work on such a small, quick to build model. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Winks Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 That's a perfectly fair comment Martin, it was Mike perception that it had to go on bare wood that I was trying to address mate, as while a lot of folks only go that route I felt it only right to demonstrate there are others that work well ,if not arguably better. To be fair though if the model has already been either poly c'd or tissue covered why not just paint it, a cheap airbrush would make a very proffessional job as long as care is taken with masking and prep Edited By Phil Winks on 17/09/2014 21:39:00 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Hardy Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 The airframe has received 1 coat of 50/50 sanding sealer and 1 coat of 50/50 dope, before moving on to the next stage I will conduct a pull test using Solarfilm silver on a sample treated as above and a further sample on bare wood. Martin what are your concerns? I am a little concerned to apply a water based adhesive (PVA 50/50) directly on to large area of untreated balsa given the distortion risk. I use 50/50 PVA (brush through) to bond tissue then several coats of thinned dope before the final acrylic finish. Nose wheel, I see that this has a smaller diameter? Mike. Edited By Mike Hardy on 19/09/2014 13:02:39 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin McIntosh Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 Mike, I would just say that putting film over a doped balsa surface is not the norm. There could be a risk of the dope bubbling up when heated but never having tried I do not know. Also, the doped surface may seal the balsa so that no air could escape resulting in trapped bubbles similar to putting film trim on top of film which can be quite tricky. Thin PVA should be fine by itself and is recommended by the makers of Solarfilm; indeed it is the adhesive used for Litespan. If both sides of a surface are coated at the same time then there should be no warping issue. The DSRD units I used came with a twin nose wheel. Not scale but they fit fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Hardy Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 Hi all, Help with PolyC and tissue application I am covering the Tucano airframe with tissue and PolyC. No problems with application to flat surfaces but to get a bond around the edges is proving difficult. What I am finding is once the tissue is coated at the edges and dried it does not like to bond around the edge. I have to apply around the edge first with a strip then apply tissue onto the flat as a second operation. Hope this makes sense!! Any way around this problem? Mike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin McIntosh Posted September 25, 2014 Share Posted September 25, 2014 Never tried that sort of stuff really except briefly with glass cloth and ran into the same problem. Dope would have been much better on tissue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Hardy Posted September 25, 2014 Share Posted September 25, 2014 Hi Martin, got round the problem by doing the edges first leaving a 10mm return, then cutting the 'blank' slightly smaller. I usually use thinned PVA but had 500ml of PolyC in stock. The trick is to insure tissue to be stuck down is not coated with PolyC by accident. The result seems quite good, but have noticed it takes a long time to dry certainly not the 20mins quoted. I use dope after the tissue is bonded. I could never get on with bonding down wet tissue with dope. Have noticed the scalpel blades loose their edge quickly cutting tissue!! Mike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Hardy Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 I have now completed the fuselage covering with tissue bonded with PolyC see pics. Next question do I continue using PolyC to fill the tissue grain or use 50/50 none shrink dope/thinners. Regards, Mike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Winks Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Either, though my choice would be with the dope, possibly sprayed on, with a rub down with 600/1000 grit wet/dry in between successive coats, Time consuming and how far you go depends on how good a finish you require Edited By Phil Winks on 28/10/2014 13:16:58 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Hardy Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Thanks Phil, Up to now I have used a brush! Can you recommend an air brush kit not toooo expensive! What sort of air supply? Mike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Winks Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Hi Mike this one is quite cheap considering it has two airbrushes and the compressor, one top feed brush mostly for smaller areas and more precision work, one bottom feed which while as fine as the top feed can usually hold more paint for larger areas, this is basically the kit I use though it is some £20 cheaper than I paid and I had to buy the bottom feed brush separately I would always advise a dual action, press down to release the air flow and pull back to increase paint flow, they really are easier to use with a little practise I would suggest you also search out the article on here on getting into airbrushing, there are some great tips in there, one they seem to have missed is as a final cleaning solution, once you've blown a cup full of the appropriate thinners through use a windscreen washer fluid, un diluted usually, it not only completes the clean up but lubricates the needle too Edited By Phil Winks on 28/10/2014 17:53:47 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin McIntosh Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Sorry Phil but completely disagree. I would use sanding sealer 50/50. Absolutely no need to go to the trouble and expense of spraying since presumably the colour will be brushed on. If masking is to be used then the dusty surface needs to be sealed with a coat of 20% dope, 80% thinners. Again this can just be brushed on. This has been learned from bitter experience! Martin. P.S. Do you intend to be you know where next June? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin McIntosh Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 PPS. That compressor deal looks good but I bought a proper one from Screwfix for £60 some time ago. Hobbyking dual action air brushes are good and cheap. The compressor will also pump up my car tyres and power a touch-up gun (£10 on ebay) which will spray any sized model you like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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