Phoenix 2000

[Steve Hargreaves - Moderator]

I think thats the problem Mart49.....the transmitter is cleverer than I am.........It's better looking & earns more than me too....

Still as we know all these mixes, switches, dial & sliders make me a much better pilot.....

[Tony Smith 7]

Posted by Hydeflyer on 06/03/2013 14:35:57:

Interesting that Steve can switch his Tx from throttle to Crow.. that must be very useful. I'll check mine for that option.

I have mine set to do both .. the upper half of the throttle movement controls power, the lower part controls brakes. I set a bit of deadband between so I can leave the stick knowing that both brakes and motor are off, the transmitter gives me a little bleep as the stick passes centre to tell me I'm about to put the motor on.

[Hydeflyer]

OK, I've got the model fitted out but my problem at the moment is getting the throttle to work as I expect. When I first connected up the battery I got a couple of beeps from the ESC to indicate the motor was operational (I presume) but on moving the stick all the way up nothing happened. I looked on the HK website and found some dialogue about this and someone suggested you have to power up the ESC with throttle set to full. Sounded a bit scary but I did it and a series of different tones sounded. Having listened to them I disconnected the battery, switched off the TX and restarted with the throttle stick down. Now the ESC gave out 3 beeps and a fourth after a slight delay, and the motor works... but only at the top end of the throttle travel!

I have re-tried this operation, disconnecting the battery at different times during the tones, but it makes no difference. I'm now baffled as I am very new to electric power having had only one simple model before, which worked straight out of the box.

Any ideas?

[Steve Hargreaves - Moderator]

First step.....TAKE OFF THE PROP........an unexpected start up can really spoil your day/fingers/face/eyes

Now....it sounds as though the ESC needs to "learn" the throttle movement.....usually plugging in the battery with the throttle stick at low works OK....you may find you have to lower the throttle trim right down to get the ESC to recognise a closed throttle. Maybe try lowering the throttle trim & stick to the bottom of their travel...then connect the battery.....the ESC should beep a few times often followed by a longer beep to say its armed & ready to go......it should then respond normally....

HTHs

[David Gilder]

Hydeflyer,

Sounds to me like you have reprogrammed the esc with the throttle settings.

you need to reset them and let the ESC learn your throttle positions!

Remove Prop.

Turn on Tx and move throttle to top. Plug in Model.

After first few beeps, move throttle to bottom.

wait for a few more quick beeps and then a long one.

this should now have set the throttle settings in the ESC.

Move throttle slowly open and the motor should fire up as normal!

Unplug Model then turn Tx off. Replace Prop.

When you go flying, Turn on Tx with throttle at bottom. Plug in Model, Wait for the quick beeps and the long one. Model now live and ready to fly!!

 

Hope that helps!

Dave

 

Steve just beat me to it!!

Edited By David Gilder on 11/03/2013 17:32:31

[Hydeflyer]

David... Genius!! Your idea worked. How do you know this stuff?? If only these things came with proper instructions! I didn't realise ESC's had brains and needed to be taught a lesson!!

Steve.. I tried the throttle trim down trick and then did David's fix which worked. However, when I moved the trim back to zero, the motor didn't work again. So I reset the ESC again as per David's instruction, this time with the trim at zero and low and behold it worked perfectly. Thankfully I did have the gumption to do all this without the prop connected!

Thanks again!

[David Gilder]

Glad to hear its worked for you!

Can't remember where I picked that up but to be honest, it was probably from the other wise kings on this forum!

That means there's one thing left for you to do now.... Fly it!!!

Happy landings!

Dave

[Robin Kearney]

I think it's pretty common, I've had to perform the same calibration with ESCs from a few different manufacturers. Probably not a bad idea to do it on any new ESC, so it learns the low and high points of your throttle stick.

I've just had to do the same with all four Turnigy Plush ESCs on my quadcopter. At least Turnigy document the procedure in the supplied manual

r.

[Olly P]

Still want one, no budget until shed is complete though....

[Hydeflyer]

By the way all you knowledgeable people.. what the heck does " brake" mean in the context of an electric motor / ESC? I'm panicking now that I might have done something to affect the motor's performance. Can the prop be turning the wrong way and what is the right way? Doh!!

Can't maiden it till I'm sure its OK.

[Chris Bott - Moderator]

Brake just means that the ESC disconnects all power and connects together all three motor wires. This has the effect of slowing and stopping the rotation, like a brake.

Turning the right way is when the prop blows air backwards and pulls the model forwards.

The brake is used so that the prop will fold for minimum drag while gliding. Surprisingly, if there wasn't a brake, the prop still windmills, and never folds.

Edited By Chris Bott - Moderator on 15/03/2013 19:42:45

[David Gilder]

Brake means that the motor stops the prop to allow it to fold back. More commonly used on power models to stop the prop fromo windmilling!

the only way to check you haven't inadvertently switched the motor direction is to hold the fuselage firmly with the prop facing AWAY from you and power up slowly to be just the draft is going back over your hand!

From what I understand though is that the ESC's on the Phoenix don't have a motor reverse part as this can be done by swapping over any 2 of the 3 wires between the motor and the ESC.

Hope that makes sense.

Dave.

[WolstonFlyer]

"Brake" means that when you lower the throttle stick to zero throttle the motor will stop spinning and will electronically hold its position (think- like a car wheel brake being applied) rather than being able to free spin and be turned by the prop as it moves through the air. You will want the brake turned on for a plane with a folding prop.

The prop would normally turn clockwise if you look at it from the back of the plane looking forwards.

Wow it took me so long to type that using my phone there are two better answers above!

Edited By WolstonFlyer on 15/03/2013 19:53:43

[Hydeflyer]

Thanks again for all your advice!

Everything is OK with the prop and after watching this YouTube vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTJbWvC7Deo I have managed to set the brake as well. Switch on the Tx with the throttle all the way up, connect the battery in the model, listen for the tones, of which there are 4 different sets of 3. On the second set of tones lower the throttle to the bottom and the brake is set. Simples!

On my model I then had to disconnect the battery, switch off the Tx and switch on again, for the motor to work properly. Also I have found that if you accidentally switch on your Tx and model with the throttle half open, rather than starting the prop and ripping your fingers off, it gives out a repetitive warning beep until you lower the throttle to the bottom, which activates the motor again. You may all know this already of course, but for the benefit of any other numpties like me it's quite reassuring to know!

[Mart49]

Well done Hydeflyer, I had to go through the same learning process just a few weeks ago. All you need to do now is get out and fly it !! let us know how you get on. Mart

[Simon Cunliffe]

What would you say the wind envelope is for a Phoenix 2000 (glider only)?

[Mart49]

Yesterday (saturday) was fantastic weather for flying, however it was a steady 15-17 mph and the windiest i've tried to fly in. My little Hawk sky seemed to cope, so I launched the phoenix and I was amazed. It climbed fast, and was just brilliant in dealing the wind. I had 4 great flights - all off 1 1800 3c battery!! Each flight of 10 mins or so only needed 1 1/2 minutes of power. Serious grin factor for the rest of the evening.

There were 5 others at the field, all of whom were amazed at the P2K - especially when they knew the cost . Shame I couldn't be out today as well!

[Tim C]

I have just gor my Phoenix 2000, problem

No 1 is mounting the motor securely, just screwing through the plastic front into the motor still allows the motor to flex sufficiently for vibration to be bad a high power settings.

I am now going to mount the motor, using the Ply plate provided with the non motor spinner in the kit on the inside of the fuse, and the Ali X mount that came within the motor on the outside. I will post the results when I finally get it mounted up.

Has anyone esle had similar problems??

No 2: Does anybody know the std Folding Prop size that comes with the Kit (I am guessing 10 x 7), I suspect I need a bigger prop (12 x 6) at a guess for my motor, but would be easier to base line the power on the std prop first

[Pete B]

I've just measured my supplied prop at 10", Tim - looking at it, 7 or 8" pitch seems likely. As you say, though, the size for yours will be dictated by your motor.

Pete

[Tim C]

Thanks, It sort of looks like a 10 x 7.

Well the motor mount mod seems to have worked, and no vibes now with the motor powered up.

A quick check on the power meter shows 285 watts with the std prop, should be sufficient, anyway I will go with that for the initial flights and see how it goes

[Mart49]

Here's an edit from an hours worth of flying on Bank Holiday Monday. if you need some orientation, then flying towards the lake is SW - in the hazy distance is Canary Wharf. Flying away from the lake (North'sh) is Hainault, with Chigwell Row on the horizon (Think Essex posh - "birds of a feather"!). Keyfob cam on top of wing, with a .67 wide angle adapter.

Edited By Mart49 on 08/05/2013 18:04:52

[Mart49]

Another quick question...

Is anyone using expo with their P2K? I've never used it, but reading elsewhere it might help with smoothing out the turns. Thanks

[Steve Hargreaves - Moderator]

Expo not really necessary on this one Mart......its not the most responsive model you'll ever fly after all..... a touch of differential on the ailerons will help keep the nose pointing in the right direction through the turns though...

[Ross Clarkson]

Great video Mart.

This is next on the list!!!!

[Nev Haycox]

Maidened my Phoenix yesterday and all went reasonably well. This is the first glider I have flown and was well impressed. The only problem I had was I’d set it up with flaps but hadn't dialled in enough down elevator so the landing was a bit of a rollercoaster.

Being new to gliding however I have a question. To trim for yaw and roll is pretty obvious but what’s the best way to trim for pitch. With a powered plane I set the throttle between half and two thirds in level flight and trim, but how do you do it with a glider? I’m thinking too much up and it will keep stalling too little and you lose unnecessary height, so is it trial and error or is there a particular way!

Nev.