Futaba FAAST: important announcement (from Ripmax website)

[Tim Mackey]

Why do you not think the Spektrum is better?

No reported problems of this nature, 7 channels, 20 model memory, better build quality... over to you Dave

I suspect that the people who claim the Futaba is better than the Spekky are Futaba faithful, and it is difficult to be swayed from a brand that perhaps you have "followed" for many years.

Ask me how I know

Signed Timbo.... a JR user for 30 years. 

[David Ridgeon]

Hi Timbo

As I Understand it the spectrum requires this double receiver and it uses jr hardware which is fine but cant they make their own? and I have not heard of them until now.

 I understand the new cheaper spectrum is coming out soon again two recevers for full range. The futaba looks lighter and easy.

Like you I have been a Jr user but I like to be sure I have got the best I can get for my money.

[Tim Mackey]

The spektrum (note K not C ) does NOT need a twin receiver ( ar7000 ) the new 62000 is a single unit with full range, and the 6000 or 6001 despite stating park fly range can be flown almost out of site on a 60" sloper with no loss of control. The futaba sinle reciver has a much longer aerial wire too.

I dont understand what you mean about the hardware ? Spektrum must use spekky rcvrs of course...as must Futaba use Futaba ones, but the TR is basically made by JR and has the same software and programming as JR. The spekky can use any 3 wire servo you like.

If you are a "JR man" you would find programming the spekky very familiar.

Anyway, this is off topic, so if you want to know more, PM me. 

[G]

I had a Futaba 6EX (35MHz version) and it was okay, but I was a little disappointed with the programming.  Then I got a JR 9XII and it was far better.  Obviously it should be, it's a high end transmitter and the Futaba 6EX is a low end transmitter - but I think even the cheaper JRs have slightly more 'human' programming than Futabas.  So if you're used to JR you might find the Spektrum DX7 nicer (it's a rebadged JR modified for 2.4).  Another consideration is that the DX7 is a mid-range transmitter, whereas the Futaba 6EX is a low end transmitter, so they're not really direct competitors.  I'm not trying to knock Futabas, they're okay, but anyone expecting the 6EX to be anything other than a beginner's transmitter might be disappointed.

[Dave Bran]

Quote from an earlier post............ "but then I don't fly with anyone who also has a 6EX"

Unless you fly in extremely isolated non-populated territory (like Islington ), how would you be sure??? 

Quote from Ripmax announcement............."Each time that your transmitter is turned on, it is imperative that you allow the FASST system an adequate amount of time to thoroughly boot-up completely before shutting down the transmitter"

Note with care the word "imperative".  Can you honestly say that you have NEVER done a quick power cycle on your set??

If quick power cycle code loss on non-zero issued sets isn't "an issue", the word imperative is missplaced, but it WAS used, rather than "advised".

 

[YakMad]

Sorry Timbo the 6200 is a dual receiver unit just a little smaller and only six channels, i have two, I also have the Futaba 2.4 aswell and the full range 607 rx is easier to mount in smaller models, Kyosho f-16 DF, as the long aerials can be just taped into exterior panel lines, I will be putting a SPECKY 6100E into it soon, I am using it as a test bed for these systems. I will wait to see how FUTABA handles this and then decide, although my current thinking is that I will the Spectrum in my smaller models as the 6100 rx is much smaller and use the Futaba in larger models as I have some very expensive Futaba Trannies which I am using there 2.4 modules in. By the way the new Spectrum DX6i is very easy to program.

[Tim Mackey]

Yes your right of course - my mistake . It is the 6100 and edge connector version 6100E that are single units and the AR6200 and AR7000 and 9000 are full range "twins" - the latter being 9 channel and also compatible with the flight log device.  AR6300 and 9100 are due very soon and were featured on this site recently I think. There is also a 6000 parkfly range version, which has pretty much been superseded by the smaller 6100, yet I have used this in larger models at great range with no problem.

There seems to have been a flurry of spekky receivers hitting the shops over the last few months, no wonder I get confused over the numbering....

I do wish they would find a clearer and simpler identity system / number letter designation

Anyway... I / we have drifted off topic - AGAIN

[YakMad]

No problem Timbo I had to go and look at one of them to be sure myself, I don't think that any of the systems are perfect but Futaba's lack of info is beginning to grate, and the testing method which Ripmax are using (a zero code rx) could be done by anyone with a new rx, I do think they have a bigger problem then they admit.  Ripmax are supposed to be able to id the problem modules and TX's by the serial numbers, that's rubbish as I bought three at the same time and one is faulty.

[Tom Sharp]

Timbo, don't be too confident about Spektrum. They had a big recall on one of their receivers last summer. Reason, programme fault.

[Alan B]

What Tom! ******   When did that little Gem appear!  Do you know which model of receiver?

[David Ashby - Moderator]

Dave B

Good point which is why I'll be getting the TX checked of course.

Can I open the debate up a bit here chaps. There's been a lot of chat about the relative merits of Futaba and Spektrum and in my opinion there's been a lot of one-sided commentary adversely comparing the budget level Futaba 6EX with the mid-range Spektrum - model memories et al...We all appreciate Tim's passion for the Spektrum brand but there's one area that I've read little comment over are the actual merits of the operating systems. Spektrum locks on to two channels and Futaba changes channel every milli-second or such. Two very different approaches yet somehow I feel (in the longer term) this may be the crux of the matter when comparing the systems and especially as cars and other consumer electronic items start to use 2.4GHz.

Discuss......?

[YakMad]

David,

         The channel hopping is the reason I was prepared to wait for the Futaba System, I invested in the Spectrum afterwards as part of a package. But there is always the unique Guid which should protect you from that interference anyway. Currently there are about 6 people on Futaba 2.4 and 2 on Spectrum 2.4 in my club and last weekend we turned on all the systems at one and walked around and even put another tx on top of another model to see if we could interfere in anyway with each other and to check if any two had the zero GUID problem. There was not so much as the slightest movement of any servo in any other model apart from the commands the owner of the model was making. This in it self speaks volumes about how much safer these system are.  I think the Futaba should be more robust in terms of potential interference from other sources as it does not stay on any two channels long enough to have a serious effect, well that's the theory anyway and the Futaba will warn you about low voltage by reducing the throttle to idle about minute before your RX battery drops below the receiver's cutoff voltage point, I've tested this at home. I don't know if the Spectrum has a similar feature, but they did have a problem with the rx shuting down if the servos pulled the voltage below its operating threshold, but they been quick to sort out these problem and have updated the firmware in the receivers to do a quick re-connect if it happens (it was taking 16 seconds to re-connect) and they offer a free firmware upgrade to anyone with older receivers. I don't think either system is perfect yet, but is you think back to the early days of 27 mhz and the rubbish radio and servos we had then, interference and failure where part of you flying session.

[YakMad]

David,

It's easy to check your 6EXA, just try to connect to a new unboud RX, if it does you have a problem, the green LED should blink if you cannot connect. The RX is supplied with a zero Guid.

[Tim Mackey]

Well I think firstly that the "programme fault" which Tom refers to was ( because its the ONLY recorded hardware /software problem I know of in any Spektrum gear ) on the early 6100 micro sized  parkfly receiver. Some early versions were reported to exhibit un-commanded elevator movement. This was being reported in the US ( none that I know of over here ) at the same time as the slightly earlier version AR6000 park fly receiver was still popular for smaller models, and I elected to buy the older 6000 version because I had heard of these problems with the 6000. Free firmware upgrades were done on any 6100 that was returned to HH, and it apparently only affected a few receivers within a very small distribution window. I have had no issues with the 2 x 6000s I own, flying 50" slope soarers at a considerable height and distance ( over water too, which many scaremongers warn is dangerous with 2.4Ghz ) and never had any problems at all. I have since bought 3 of the 6100s including the newer edge connector version, following assurances from retailers and HH that any 6100 produced since early summer 2007 was fine, and they too have been flawless. As for the merits /problems with FHSS or DSS well all I can say is that JR/SPEKKY started developing their 2.4Ghz system as a hopping system, and abandoned the principle after many months and millions of dollars in favour of the hopping version, claiming that the hopping system gave "a more robust link and was generally better suited to the R/C modeller's needs". I guess being objective for a moment, there will be pros and cons with either, but look at it in a simplistic way for a moment. The hopper needs some VERY complicated and infinitesimal electronic timing and clocks to work properly. After selecting its chosen frequency the system has to "hop" up and down millions of different "channels"  millions of times a second. The little receiver in the model has to hop about all these channels in EXACT synchronisation with the tr to stay "in tune".

This is not done by any form of two way communication between them, but "simply" by the two clocks in the tr and the recvr both switching in synchronisation - hopefully! Further more, the signal is only transmitted on one carrier channel, so there is no redundancy if that channel /reception is interrupted or lost.

The direct sequencing system in the Spekky does not hop, so synchronisation of this channel switching millions of times a second does not figure. It also uses 2 channels, but will work fine on one, should reception of either fail, so there is some form of redundancy. 

I

[Tim Mackey]

Part two - ( this word limit for a posting must be Timbo proof driven )

I am NOT an electronics expert so forgive any slight errors in my simplified description of things.

As to my bias towards Spekky that David mentions - this is simple, and has been explained by me several times in other threads. I have used JR gear for almost 30 years, and always found it excellent quality. I also believe that Futaba have made some excellent R/C gear too, and there is little to choose between them in an objective way. Most of us have brand loyalty, whether we know or admit it, in many areas of our lives - look at the silly debates which often surround the merits of one PC brand versus another - they all use pretty much the same internal components and were probably assembled in the same far Easterm factory - with a different badge stuck on the case at the end of the production line! Same emotive thing with cars...Ford versus Vauxhall or whatever - I know they are not made in the same factory, but a Ford owner will be loyal to Ford, because he has one! Anyway...you get the picture.

Finally, ( thank god they cry ) I chose Spektrum because they got there first. They spent a fortune developing the system, it was received with total endorsement by the AMA for a long time before we got it in the UK, and I have had NOTHING but superb results with all my 14 models which are totally 2.4Ghz. I cant help feeling that Futaba missed the boat a bit on 2.4Ghz, perhaps underestimating the demand - did they perhaps rush the final development in order to get back their falling market share?? I have owned and operated my DX7 for almost 18 months, mainly on electric flight models, but also on larger IC models, without a single problem whatsoever and thats more than I can say for 35Mhz, of any brand.

I like my Spektrum

There...debate opened

[YakMad]

Why did I not use my spell checker in my previous post.........

Anyway I think you are right Timbo, brand loyalty plays a huge part in what you buy which was another reason I waited for Futaba and have now been stung, I have alot of Futaba radio which I did not feel like just dumping and thought as Futaba was so much later releasing 2.4 equipment that they had spent the time testing, after all they do make industrial 2.4 control equipment as well so surely they would have thought of everything and had very good quality control, maybe that's why I been buying Hitec servos for the last few years...... don't get me started!!

[G]

Of course the Spektrum system was developed by a Brit ... don't know if that means anything but it adds a slight 'Feel Good' factor to me ...

[Tim Mackey]

Paul Beard is 'yer man...Manchester Uni I believe

 heres yer link....

[Tim Mackey]

Incidentally it is a PROVEN fact that the DSM2 DSS system developed by Paul and Spektrum is clearly far better than any other system...just ask Horizon Hobbies and they will confirm it

[Jimbo565]

I had my 6EX 2.4 checked out this morning at the local model shop and everything is fine. TX battery was disconnected and reconnected with no problems evident.

I believe Futaba still have an issue to address with the boot up procedure  If my info. is correct and the on/off switch is toggled quickly the system is capable of losing its preset code.

[Chris Bell]

Hi all, We have 4 6EX units flying at our club and so far no issues at all, there are also 2 Spektrum units flying and to date no problems.

 I have a 6EX and its been brilliant - my other Rig is a Hitec optic 6 but as they dont have 2.4 yet I lookd at both systems, and bought Futaba based on my option that the switching system was the way to go.

Best,

Chris

[Tim Mackey]

Hi Chris...did you base your choice of FHSS on technical know how, and if so, what makes this system better than DSS ?

[Tom Sharp]

All this claim and counter claim reminds me of the days when buying a vidio recorder, one had to choose between Betamax or VHS. Betamax was the superior system but lost out to VHS on price.

[Bill Courtney]

I Jim Carss is right and the code can be reset simply by switching the transmitter on and back off quickly, all of this testing in model shops is a waste of time. It may be fine for a while but who's to say that one day whilst setting up a new receiver you forget and turn on and off quickly. From what I understand, you will not know of any problems until you try to use one of your previously set recievers which may be in several weeks time. If another flyer does the same thing (unlilkely but possible) you will have a possible clash of frequencies.  Please correct me if I am wrong but even if it is a one in a million chance, it is still a potential accident that cannot be allowed to happen. Dont forget that a lot of this equipment is sold to people who are new to the hobby and do not have the relevent experience of how to code a receiver.

Is it not about time Ripmax owned up and recalled all of the suspect equipment for a full refund. This way people could decide whether to wait for a re-designed Futaba or change to the Spektrum equipment.

The BMFA still seem very quiet on the subject..Should they not be doing more to check out what exactly are the problems and advise clubs on relevent action required?

[Jimbo565]

Bill,i'm with you 100% on this one,I think the equipment should be recalled,as you say its an accident waiting to happen and Futaba should accept responsibility sooner rather than later.