Sullivan Gold-n-rod bought from Blackburn Models

[Wasaforumite]

I purchased a set of these control rods from Blackburn Models in January over the internet as part of an order worth £47 for some materials.

Yesterday I came to use the set and found there were no locking nuts included for the threads on both ends. This can result in one end unscrewing and the other screwing up if the rod revolves. There is no way of preventing the slop in the threads. Furthermore, the instructions for using the product clearly states that these small nuts should be used.

The nuts of course are an American size not commonly available.

I politely asked Blackburn models to supply 4 nuts to make the system usuable. Here is their reply verbatim:

Hi Mr Heath, I have checked all our Sullivan snakes and non come with the 2-56 nuts. I have been in touch with Ripmax and they tell me that they are not supplied with the snakes. The instructions are a little misleading, but if you look at the kit includes list, they are not listed as an included item. Also if you look on the Ripmax website, the pictures do not show the nuts are included. You can purchase a pack of 20 Sullivan nuts for £1.60. Hope this is of some help for you. Thank You

I presume that on top of the £1.60 charge there will postage and the 75p small transaction charge.

I don't think this is a satisfactory product (costing £7.10 + postage originally) nor do I think that the Blackburn Models/Ripmax reaction is good either.

It would appear that Sullivan, Ripmax and Blackburn Models jointly do not want to take responsibilty for their product.

[Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator]

Hi Ian,

I am afraid that I can offer no solution to your problem. But I would like to thank you for an excellent example of how to register your discontent with a trader or traders on here. You have followed the guidelines excellently. First you approached the company before coming on here - giving them an opportunity to respond and fix the problem. Then you presented the case clearly and factually. Finally you expressed your views on the outcome as clearly being "your opinion" rather than indisputable fact!

If more complaints about traders were so well written then we would all collectively have a lot less grief over this issue.

For anyone who still isn't sure of the forum's guidelines on raising issues with traders please look here where they are laid out.

BEB

[Myron Beaumont]

I would just put a drop of cyano on one end (servo most likely) or crimp/tin with solder the clevis a bit .I bought a whole load of these rods in France -same problem .At least you got a reply .

[Pete B]

Even the modelling 'greats' get it wrong sometimes, Ian

I see our cousins over the water have been airing the same complaint about the Gold-n-Rods for some time and they didn't seem to get any satisfaction from Sullivan.

Whilst the nut issue is one thing, I've found that temperature change has been a far bigger problem, and well worth checking trims each day out.

If you'd rather direct your hard-earned elsewhere, I'd recommend Modelfixings - a bit cheaper there for the 2-56 nuts and by the time you've browsed the site and added the inevitable other bits you think you'll need at some time, the good value postage rate will be a fading memory......

Pete

[Wasaforumite]

Many thanks for the three replies so far.

I would observe:

1. I am thankful for BEB's remarks.(and blushing a bit)

2. Myron's solution is a possible.

3. Pete B is a mind reader - I was looking at Model Fixings when my email system 'beeped' with his reply.

I suppose some people would think it small minded to worry about 4 tiny nuts but if you pay for a speciality product it should do its job.

Ian

[Ben B]

To be fair to Blackburn models the photo doesn't show any nuts and the description doesn't suggest they come with them. And they are shown as a seperate item at the bottom of the Sullivan page on the Blackburn models website.

I agree they probably should be included but I'm not sure we can blame Blackburn or Ripmax in this case. They buy in the product from Sullivan and sell them on. I think the moral of this story is that Sullivan Gold-n-snakes are quite expensive especially when they don't include nuts.

Personally I wouldn't trust CA- it's brittle and might easily vibrate itself lose. I'd do it properly with some nuts.

[Wasaforumite]

Ben

I think you are being too kind to BM and Ripmax here. I purchased the product by going to the product from the left hand side list and this is what you see:

Flexible Snake, 36 inch (SN503)

£7.10

This Package Contains Two of Flexible 36" Nylon Gold-N-Rod Push Rod Systems from Sullivan.

FEATURES: Used to connect servo arms in the model to the model's control surfaces.
Made to tight tolerances to ensure smooth operation with minimum friction.
Comes complete with Gold-N-Clevises and other installation hardware.
Nylon push rods made from a special compound to reduce thermal expansion and prevent radio interference.
Light, strong, and flexible.
The yellow inner rod spline construction reduces friction and binding.
Each brass plated Gold-N-Clevis is constructed of tempered steel with an interlocking collar, welded pin, and an exclusive steel retaining clip to prevent accidental opening.
This has a red sheath and a minimum bending radius of 2-1/2" making it good on small to medium aircraft or lightweight, medium strength applications.

PACK INCLUDES: 2 Push Rod Systems
SPECIFICATION: Length: 36"
Minimium Radius: 2-1/2" (64mm)
Colour: Red & Yellow
Thread Size: 2-56

Note that this is called a 'system'. Now when I buy a 'system' I don't expected to have to buy other parts especially if they aren't mentioned. If Sullivan say to use the nuts in their instructions they should have it in their adverts as well. Ripmax/BM's reaction to the shortcoming wasn't what I would expect from companies that have good customer service as a core value.

I wasn't aware that Ripmax imported this stuff until after the purchase but they should ensure that they and their retailers accurately describe their products and provide proper support and after sales service.

I have now ordered some nuts from Modelfixings.

[Phill @ Elite Workwear UK]

Personally I agree with Ben B that BM and Ripmax are just selling on a product. They dont control the contents of the package and if it is not listed you probably won't get it. - I agree the description is a little vague in this regard.

Having said that - I agree the nuts should probably be included as an integral part of the "system".

As a retailer I know what I would have done to keep the customer happy - I would have supplied the pack of nuts at the full retail price but offered free postage.

Just my thoughts.

P

[Bob Cotsford]

I've used Gold'n'rods for years and never had a single nut come with them. That's just the way they are.

Come to that i never seem to have noticed any trim changes with the weather, but I have with SLEC's clones. What i have noticed has been that sometimes the pin hasn't been rivetted into the clevis! Watch out for that one. I honestly wish they would just supply the snakes and keep their fittings.

I've been told that if the fittings are silver they are metric while gold are UNF threads. May be true, may not be I just junk the fittings anyway.

[Greybeard]

Posted by Phill Emerson on 08/02/2013 16:37:27:

Personally I agree with Ben B that BM and Ripmax are just selling on a product. They dont control the contents of the package and if it is not listed you probably won't get it. - I agree the description is a little vague in this regard.

Having said that - I agree the nuts should probably be included as an integral part of the "system".

As a retailer I know what I would have done to keep the customer happy - I would have supplied the pack of nuts at the full retail price but offered free postage.

Just my thoughts.

P

They may be "just selling on a product" but they have a duty to ensure that it is fif for purpose; and clearly it is not as supplied. It's an example of buck-passing at it's worst.

[flytilbroke]

I have to agree with Ian Heath and many others. Imagine buying a car (system) and the dealers disclaiming no responsibility for it not having wheels. The retailer and the Wholesaler are "dealers", the Wholesalers in particular have the clout to say that the supplied goods must match the instuctions supplied with them. I am also a customer who bought the same item although from a different retailer, my oppinion did not count for much then either.

Old saying, customer beware.

[Phill @ Elite Workwear UK]

Posted by Greybeard on 08/02/2013 16:50:30:

Posted by Phill Emerson on 08/02/2013 16:37:27:

Personally I agree with Ben B that BM and Ripmax are just selling on a product. They dont control the contents of the package and if it is not listed you probably won't get it. - I agree the description is a little vague in this regard.

Having said that - I agree the nuts should probably be included as an integral part of the "system".

As a retailer I know what I would have done to keep the customer happy - I would have supplied the pack of nuts at the full retail price but offered free postage.

Just my thoughts.

P

They may be "just selling on a product" but they have a duty to ensure that it is fif for purpose; and clearly it is not as supplied. It's an example of buck-passing at it's worst.

Buck passing - possibly.

There are distance selling rules that would allow the items to be returned if they are not what the customer expects (I encounter this almost weekly at work) and in order to keep harmony and good customer relations (our entire business is based on word of mouth and a good reputation) we accept any item - no questions asked - often even if they are not in their original packaging or still with tags etc.

I would like to know what BM would say if Ian asked to return them sighting they are not suitable for the job they were intended for.

P

[Phill @ Elite Workwear UK]

Posted by flytilbroke on 08/02/2013 16:59:24:

I have to agree with Ian Heath and many others. Imagine buying a car (system) and the dealers disclaiming no responsibility for it not having wheels. The retailer and the Wholesaler are "dealers", the Wholesalers in particular have the clout to say that the supplied goods must match the instuctions supplied with them. I am also a customer who bought the same item although from a different retailer, my oppinion did not count for much then either.

Old saying, customer beware.

I am sure somewhere in the manual for the car it will state it needs fuel to make it go. Last time I bought a new car it was supplied with a little less than a dribble of fuel in.

Customer beware - good saying - I must remember that

P