Doing things the hard way.

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[Wiiispa]

Well I've been to the local RC shop and met with the very nice owner, friendly and forthcoming with lots of advice. I bought Phoenix 4 and a Hitec Optic 6 Radio kit. No plane as of yet. He told me about one of the local clubs, and with any luck I'll find time to pay them a visit or two. At least I know my radio will be compatible with some of the club members should the time arise that I need a buddy.

Shortcuts to success are not my motivation. Rather the challenge of thinking through the learning process and working out as much as I can for myself without too much third party input appeals. For me, the proven routes offer less of a challenge with the way forward clearly mapped out. I like a little risk.

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[Peter Miller]

Posted by Percy Verance on 11/05/2013 16:18:49:

If I may, I'll tell you what happened the day a full size airline pilot visited our club with the intention of "having a go". The club trainer was prepared and taken aloft. Control was then passed to Mr. Pilot to have a stir of the sticks via a buddy lead. Within two minutes, a cry of "this is impossible" was heard from him. He then jumped in his car and drove off.......

Edited By Percy Verance on 11/05/2013 16:35:26

I can confirm that, we asued to fly on a private airstrip and all the full size pilots tried flying our models and all agreed that it was much harder than flying full size.

Haveing said that we have a member who flies a full size PittsSpecial but is also a brilliant model pilot.

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[Wiiispa]

Posted by Percy Verance on 11/05/2013 16:18:49:

Remember Wiiiispa, you might enjoy a little risk, but those whom you may end up sharing a flying field with may not.........

I have no intention of sharing a flying field with anyone if I do decide to 'do it the hard way'. That would be irresponsible, selfish and stupid of me. No, I'd practice on my own. I'd go to the flying field as a spectator to observe the flying and ettiquette practiced by regular users. Once I felt proficient enough to comply, then and then alone would I feel safe enough to join in.

[Bill_B]

Posted by Peter Miller on 11/05/2013 18:45:17:

Having said that we have a member who flies a full size PittsSpecial, but is also a brilliant model pilot.

Not Rob Millinship by any chance with G-FLIK?

[Ian Jones]

Posted by Wiiispa on 11/05/2013 15:55:12:

".....For me, the proven routes offer less of a challenge with the way forward clearly mapped out. I like a little risk."

"The proven routes offer plenty of challenges and the way forward is sometimes as clear as mud".

If you have not done so I strongly suggest you get hold of and learn Prof Dave Burtons "What goes up" articles in recent issues of RCM&E regarding the basics of aircraft control. Unless you already know better that is.

Anyway best of luck to you, keep safe (as already mentioned) and be prepared for the hard way to cost you money as well as time and frustration.

[Wiiispa]

Ok so my first proper question. Q. The Optic 6 is a mode 2 device which I am happy with. However is it normal for the elevator control to use push forward to make the plane climb? To me it feels the wrong way round.

[Codename-John]

for mode 2 you should pull backwards on the right hand hand stick to make the model pitch its nose upwards Wiiispa, when you set an actual model up as you look at it from behind, as you pull backwards on the stick the elevator should go upwards

[Ian Jones]

The answer you are looking for is to pull the stick backwards to climb (as a result of the elevator moving upwards)... but that's not actually correct either .

The elevator changes the pitch of the aircraft about it's CG point and up elevator will, if there is sufficient lift/thrust available, result in a climb - if not it will slow down the aeroplane and it will descend, possibly in a stall.

Exactly the reason for my previous post regarding learning about the aircraft controls, I can't recommend the articles I mentioned strongly enough.

I'm sure that you will have more questions and no doubt answers will be forthcoming

[John Olsen 1]

This illustrates exactly why some help can be useful. It is not uncommon for controls to need reversing, which is usually pretty easy these days since most transmitters either have a switch or a menu choice to reverse each control. However, not only does the direction need to be right, the amount of travel available needs to be right too or at least within a reasonable range, to make it possible to control the aircraft. Usually there will be a recommended set of throws provided. Then there is the question of trim, which can make the difference between a demon and a pussycat as far as the behaviour of the model is concerned. So even if you are going to learn on your own, it would be quite a good idea to have someone check out the aircraft first. I did a certain amount of my learning with a cheap foamy on a nearby park, but only after some time on the buddy box and a simulator, and only with aircraft that had been checked out by the club instructor. Note also that even with help, more than one aircraft was involved, although most of them are reparable!

John

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[Peter Miller]

Posted by Bill_B on 11/05/2013 21:54:07:

Posted by Peter Miller on 11/05/2013 18:45:17:

Having said that we have a member who flies a full size PittsSpecial, but is also a brilliant model pilot.

Not Rob Millinship by any chance with G-FLIK?

NO, David Eggleton. WE sometimes get an aerobatic display with Lomvevacs and rolling tail slides etc just as we arrive for a flying session and the David arrives later with his models.

[Wiiispa]

Thanks for the continued input Guys. I figured that the elevator control needed reversing so found my way through the menu for the optic 6 and reversed channel 2 which did the trick. Feels much more natural now, like I'd expect. Glad I started with the sim, as it'd have cost quite a bit in repair bills by now. Orientation hasn't been a problem at all really so far. I'm practising with trainers and have set up some gusty weather to make things a little challenging. After a couple of hours I can now line up pretty well with the runway on the flying field and land successfully 4 times out of 5. I've had a couple of flights with some of the scale mdels like the A10 which are much twitchier and require faster thought and reactions like I expected.

In normal flying through the turns, knowing how much rudder to use in conjuction with the other controls to get a nice level turn is proving tricky, but I'm slowly getting there. I know it's only a sim, and the real thing will probably be much, much, harder. Anyway I'm enjoying what I'm doing so far.

[riverlandgirl.]

G'day Wiiispa.

Dont see why I shouldn't put my 2 cents worth in too... Go for it, i say. BUT only spend enough time on the simulator to gain basic compentancy, if you get to good on the simulator, you'll run into trouble on the real thing. SIMULATORS AND MODELS ARE NOT THE SAME After that i fully back Peter Miller's Advice, Big, slow and lots of time to think...

[Wiiispa]

Well. I've put in a few hours on the phoenix sim with fairly random wind and turbulence settings. I've had a go with pretty much every fixed wing model on there, flying circuits and landing everything, along with the inevitable crashes. I've adjusted the wind to suit the size of model, where necessary.

What I've found with the sim is that bigger is better, with respect to stability and predictability. Is real life model flying the same? The Aerobatic models seem to have much better stick response than the trainers, which I assume is a good and bad thing (for a beginner)? Can get you out of trouble but just as easily get you in it?

So I want to start to build something to fly. I'd rather it not be a trainer, I can get an artf foamy thingy for the first few real world flights. No, I'd like to build something with wood. Preferably with a built up wing construction that's electric powered. Probably around 50" wingspan. Somewhere between trainer and out 'n out acrobatic model. Just heavy enough to combat some wind. Just friendly enough to land at a medium speed. Looking for ideas please.

I still might go for the tucano but using a built up wing instead.

[Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator]

I'll be straight with you Wiispa - as you seem a dedicated guy. What is below is not intended to wind you up or insult you. But it is some plain speaking straight from the shoulder. Its coming from a good place out of genuine desire to help you so please don't be offended. Its just that a lot of our fellow forum members are very polite and maybe sometimes its kinder to be more direct.

After you've done 1,000 hours on Phoenix - I'd give you oh let me see - er,...about five and half seconds with the Tucano before it all ended very badly.

You've been given some good advice by people with years of experience and a lot of knowledge. The choice is now yours mate. Listen to it or go your own sweet way. But frankly I'm finding posts like the last one are just an invitation for people to waste time repeating the advice you have already been given.

I've meet a lot of people with similar views, people who think a traner is naff and beneath them and that they just know that if they had a "proper" plane they could fly fine. Having said that, I've never got to know any of them very well though - becuase they don't stay around very long! After they've broken a few, lost a lot of money they tend move on to something easier.

If you want to succeed in this hobby take the advice you have been given. Get something high-wing, big and slow - like er,...well like a trainer!

BEB

[Wiiispa]

Thanks for the input BEB. I appreciate exactly where you are all coming from with regard to the advice given. I'll say it again though, It's not that I feel like a trainer is beneath me or too easy. It's that I want to see if I can do this the hard way. That's the challenge I'm initially after.

The one problem I have with experienced folk is that sometimes they can't remember where they started. I'm not saying that is the case with people here, far from it. I genuinely appreciate the input everyone has had to this thread.

Let me side-track a little so you get some idea. I drive trucks for a living. I have done for nearly 30 years now. The last 11 years have been as an agency driver. Over 2,000,000 miles of driving. You name the truck and I've driven it. There are very complex rules regarding drivers hours, loading, record keeping that should be adhered to by every driver. We even have to have periodic training these days to obtain a certificate of professional competency needed to continue driving. There are as many interpretations to these rules as there are drivers - trust me on that.

I see 'experienced' drivers doing stupid and sometimes dangerous things on a daily basis. Sometimes because they are lazy, sometimes because they are ignorant. However I will listen to them all, because nearly every one of them will have something of merit to contribute to my continuing education.

So I've modified my initial approach just a little bit, taking into account all the advice given thus far. Yes. I will make my first few flights using a trainer. Yes. I will join the local club, and attend whenever I can. Yes I will let an 'experienced' pilot trim my models for me. But I will still take that leap of faith and build something that's hard to fly for a beginner and take it to the skies come what may. I want that challenge. Thank you.

Edited By Wiiispa on 21/05/2013 01:00:43

[bouncebounce crunch]

Wiiispa, BEB is right on the money.

Most trainers with 4 channels will do plenty of loops, rolls, low passes, stall turns, fly inverted if you are at that stage, they are just a little more forgiving and robust for those early days of bashing about. I have seen plenty of experienced guys pull out a trainer after having time off from flying.

Have you driven a Scammell?

bbc.

[cymaz]

I'm sure Seagull models and every other ARTF dealer will welcome you with open arms Wiiispa, when you  smash up models.

Edited By cymaz on 21/05/2013 06:58:01

[Wiiispa]

@bbc yes indeed S24 and a quick go in an S26 sadly nothing older.