Ever wanted to get into or improve your aerobatics?

[Peter Jenkins]

If you wish to enter competitive aerobatics, then the B Certificate is a requirement for entry. However, you are now going to have to fly a schedule which does not give you the chance to fly round a circuit to catch your breath before the next manoeuvre. All of a sudden you have to get used to flying a manoeuvre in the centre then one at the end then back to the centre and the other end… then back to the centre…..

If you are lucky enough to be able to enter one of the GBR/CAA’s New Pilot Open Days, you will find that, firstly, you only need an A Cert, and secondly, you will be coached by some of today’s top aerobatic pilots in how you can improve your aerobatic flying. Many pilots who’ve entered these NPODs have found them invaluable in improving their flying technique, improving their confidence to fly new manoeuvres and most encouraging to get on and pass the B Certificate so they can join the fun in a full competition.

OK, so it is a bit of a step up in workload but nothing that a bit of practice will not get you proficient at. Indeed, the first schedules you will have to fly will probably contain many of the manoeuvres that were flown in the B. Unlike the B though, it is now essential to fly a purpose designed aerobatic airframe which has the required power so that you can focus on flying the right size, shape and position for the manoeuvre. A good 50 size aerobatic aircraft is all you need at this stage of the proceedings. Positioning becomes vitally important as if you get out of position on the current manoeuvre you will place yourself in a bad position for the next manoeuvre and so on! Don’t worry too much about this since this problem afflicts pilots of all abilities from time to time!

OK, to recap, so far in this thread, we’ve covered trimming, how to fly various aerobatic manoeuvres, how to fly the GBR/CAA entry level schedule, the Clubman, and how to get ready for the B Test. The reason for covering the latter was to help those who want to take up competitive aerobatics to get their foot on the bottom rung of the competition ladder.

Please let me know what else you would like to see covered as the next set of discussion points on precision aerobatics.

[Dave Hopkin]

As a relative novice I find this thread fascinating but very much something for the future! My brain (mostly) gets it but the thumbs don't.... maybe one day!

But I personally would find it really useful if somehow this thread could be split up and placed in a specific topic - maybe in its own heading, so that they form a "how to do" write up of each individual evolution....

So I (and maybe others) can say right "today I am going to get my head round a barrel roll" and find the appropriate thread and concentrate on that and not be distracted by the (highly interesting) side comments

A PIA I know but............... pretty please!!!!

[Peter Jenkins]

I am planning to do something like that Dave but time is the issue. However, it will happen - sometime!

[Max50]

Thanks again Peter, for all the help you've given in this thread, much appreciated and very usefull.

[Max50]

And yes Peter, i will be asking the examiners what they are looking for and expecting on the test .

Now to put it all into practice. ( Oh! ; a lot more practice, and enjoyment of flying, to put it all together, and to work on, to improve my flying).

Thanks.

[Geoff Reynolds]

Thanks Peter for getting to the end of this most informative thread. There were times when I was thinking it had stalled on some nit picking and also wandered off the main topic, but you held it all together and have taken us on a fantastically educational journey through it all.

I, for one will now need time and practice in all aspects as I realise I just aren't up to this at all currently.

However, having done an NPOD with you (and hoping we can run another next year at our club for others to enjoy) I'd thoroughly recommend that folk have a go.

If I can do it, I'm sure there are many club flyers out there who are even better equipped and skilled to have a go.

Great day out and you are sure to learn something.

Well done Peter, hope to see you soon.

Geoff

[Peter Jenkins]

Thanks for your kind words Geoff.

[Colin Carpenter]

Yes thanks Peter. Excellent work. Now starting to put it all into practice with my new Sebart S Bach 30E which flies superbly.

Colin

[Peter Jenkins]

Don't forget to come back and post on your progress or describe problems you are having and we'll try and help.

["L"Plate]

How do you fly the square loop with half rolls up and down? I am not sure how tight the radius is meant to be.

[Peter Jenkins]

L Plate, think of it as a loop that has been cut into quarters and pushed out sufficiently to allow a short line after the end of a loop quarter, a half roll, another short line and then the next quarter loop. That sets the distance you need to fly on the top and bottom of the square loop. A square loop does not require tight quarter loops and, indeed, looks much better flown the way I have described.

It is a lovely manoeuvre which does require a good vertical performance from your aircraft.

Let us know how you get on.

["L"Plate]

As my loops a fairly big to start with, will that not take them above the top of the box by a fair bit? I have been flying them with a slightly tighter radius to keep it in the box (I get away with it due to the power of the model), and sort of fly it as a hesitation loop. How sort are the sort straight lines?

[Peter Jenkins]

Ah, well if you are approaching the top of the box with your loops then that radius will be too large for a square loop. The main thing is that you don't need to pull a tight loop at each corner of the square loop so .... you need to take a view on how big to fly the manoeuvre.

The other point to bear in mind is that it is a SQUARE loop so your loop should not be a rectangle.

As regards how straight the lines should be - well, generally you are deducted 1 point for every 15 degrees off the required direction e.g rolls, verticals, 45 lines, spins etc. For horizontal lines, I've heard it said that going up slightly is not as noticeable as going down slightly. Not being a judge I cannot comment on whether this is something that is endemic. However, it is clear that if you don't keep a constant line after your manoeuvre you will almost certainly drop a point.

["L"Plate]

I don't know how the spelling mistock got in but I wanted to say how short should the straight lines be?

Thanks though for the reminder that they have to be vertical or horizontal or you loose points, not that I will as this is just for me as I am not at that level yet! I will try with a slightly tighter loop radius and see how well I can keep it in the box, while keeping the radius fairly large, I think that would look good and will save scrubbing too much speed off (which would need more power in the up and harder to keep straight especially in the wind).

[Peter Jenkins]

L Plate - there is no definition of how long the line needs to be. Suffice to say that the line before and the line after need to be the samelength. I usually chant "Pause, roll, pause, push" at a steady pace to give me the consistency in line length. That's fine if you can fly at a constant speed up and down vertically. That supposes that you have a braking function available from your ESC. Very few ESCs do this as you either have no brake or full brake. What we want is adjustable prop braking (assuming you are flying electric as IC provides prop braking courtesy of the engine idling and stopping the prop speeding up).

Getting the line length the same on the two horizontal legs is greatly affected by the prevailing wind speed especially as the wind will be much stronger some 600 feet higher than your base height!

You will, of course, need to "lean" the model into the wind and compensate with yaw as well, to cater for the inevitable head and cross wind situation. It's not that difficult a task if you work on each section at a time rather than trying to do it all together from the word go.

[Doc Austin]

For those who want to try 3D............. The New Sport Pilot's Guide To 3D

["L"Plate]

Played with the square loop and half roll, it started to looked fairly good as long as I used full power on the up line, with just a slight tightening on the normal loop radius to help maintain the speed up, then with part brake set on the ESC the down line was not too far off the same speed as the up. After about five attempts it started to look squares and the speed almost constant, most importantly the rolls seemed the same length and in the middle. With a bit more work it might even get to good.

[Peter Jenkins]

Well done L Plate! Yes, the down line speed is the one to match for all other phases of flight. Provided that full power gives you the same speed on the up line all is well. I've generally found on my 2 mtr birds that I don't need anything like full power on the vertical up line - but it all depends on the motor you're using.

Trick with the rolls is to adjust your rates so that full aileron gives you the required roll rate which will be repeatable provided the speed remains constant.

[Bob Rowland]

Gentlemen

One of the best ways to improve your aerobatics is to attend a NPOD with the GBRCAA.

The next event is planned for the 21st March 2015 at Skelbrooke Model Flying Club near Doncaster.
It is a fantastic day for anyone who fancies dipping their toe into flying F3A aerobatics.

More details can be found here

http://www.gbrcaa.org/smf/index.php?topic=4213.0

 

 

 

 

 

Edited By Bob Rowland on 08/01/2015 19:49:43

Edited By Bob Rowland on 08/01/2015 19:50:11

[Bob Rowland]

No "B" is required to attend this day.

[john melia 1]

Bob I really fancy coming down for that

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

I have attended the NPOD with Bob myself, it's a worthwhile day in good company

John

[john melia 1]

Yeah I'll be down for that

[john melia 1]

Just registered with the gbrcaa

[Gary Manuel]

I've just registered with GBRCAA Bob.

Definitely interested in attending.