Hobbyking UK & brandings

[Paul Turner 2]

Hi all

I have been considering buying my first EDF foam jet, and have looked at loads of options but have ended up mostly confused about who makes what!

A lot of the models that have been discussed or mentioned seem to be only available in the US, except when hobbyking have a similar model with their name next to it.

For example: I have been looking at the 'Stinger 64' jet which is shown on the Freewing site, but I can't find one of those anywhere. I can however find the 'Stinger 64 mk2' on Hobbyking UK. Is it the same model? Who makes it? Is the quality ok?

What about all the other models? how do I know who makes them and whether the quality is up to scratch?

Would you generally say it is safe to buy from them or risky?

Does anyone know of a list of manufacturers (and their uk equivalents?) and a list of the distributors of those products?

Many thanks

Paul

P.S would also love any opinions on which is the best quality / value first EDF!

[Bill_B]

Hi Paul, I can't comment on the branding issue, but both the Stinger 64 and Max Thrust Vortex 400 are good budget EDFs. In my experience the Stinger would fish-tailed slightly in windy conditions whereas the Votex seemed more planted. I would strongly suggest that you take the time to balance the fans as it makes a world of difference to the sound, longevity and performance of the units because they can run bit rough as supplied. IMHO, a far better plane is the slightly larger Tomahawk Designs Viperjet coupled with the new 70mm Wemotec MinFan Evo (HET 2W-20 motor), both available from Stuafenbiel Models. This combination gives an almost silent jet with superb handling qualities coupled with easy hand launching. It's not cheap, but satisfaction is guaranteed.

[scott cuppello]

The Stinger 64 mk2 (the one with the appalling 1980's pink sheme) is still made by Freewing, you don't see it elsewhere because the model is distributed globally by only around 3-4 suppliers.

The Mk 2 was instigated by me while I was at HK (but not that tacky, bad taste colour scheme) as an answer to the US distributor who upgraded the Mk1 by adding MG servo's, hence I went one stage further and went 4s and MG servo's......it's a great model, no doubt........but if you have a warranty issue, you have HK's notoriously poor CS to deal with.

I have to say that there are very few EDF's in the 64mm class I would reccomend and there is little to choose between any of the Chinese manufacturers, aside from checking that the model is of an EPO construction, I would read internet reviews......VERY carefully before choosing.....better still, same applies but go 70mm class......better still, as already mentioned, go Tomahawk, Wemo Midi Fan/HET 2W-20 if you want genuine performance and quality.

 

Edited By scott cuppello on 16/12/2013 14:04:26

Edited By scott cuppello on 16/12/2013 14:04:56

Edited By scott cuppello on 16/12/2013 14:05:45

[Brian Hammond]

Hi Paul,Try a Habu from Horizon ,mine is great straight out of the box. If you hunt around very carefully you can find the Mk 1s going for about half price!

[Bill_B]

Posted by scott cuppello on 16/12/2013 14:02:28:............better still, as already mentioned, go Tomahawk, Wemo Midi Fan/HET 2W-20 if you want genuine .......

I think you meant Minfan Scott, the Midifan is 90mm.

[Paul Turner 2]

Thanks for your reply's. Brian I have seen the Habu and it's many good reviews but I'm just not that keen on the look of it.

I do like the viper jets, and the tomahawk version looks very nice, but my original plan was to start cheap while I get used to the way jets handle, and then if I got into trouble then I wouldn't be too heartbroken / out of pocket.

BUT, then again I don't want to buy unreliable gear. There are many people vouching for the stinger jet from HK, but I have seen a few bad reviews which always knocks the decision making process. Also, everyone has an opinion (and you don't know who is affiliated with who) which makes it more difficult still!

It looks like Stuafenbiel have the airframe version only in stock for £101 plus then I assume I would need to buy EDF unit, ESC and servo's? I think it's going to be too expensive for a first timer - and it say's on the website its for 'advanced pilots' (which isn't me!)

Paul

[Pete B]

I can understand your reluctance to buy a 'pig in a poke', Paul. Many of us have a limited budget or don't wish to invest heavily in a hobby, so we do what we can to make the most of our money.

When I'm contemplating a purchase, I'll trawl through Google and see what others are saying about the item. In this case, a search throws up this RCG thread, for example, which seems to be fairly complimentary about the model.

On the other hand, those who encounter a problem with a purchase tend to shout the loudest, so it can be difficult to form a clear impression of just how good or bad a model really is.

I've made a lot of purchases from HK and in the overwhelming majority of cases I've been totally happy that the purchase has met my expectations in terms of quality and functionality. I suspect this is the case with many other customers, too. HK have certainly produced some clunkers in the past but, in my experience, they've clearly improved many of their products in recent times.

If you buy from the UK Warehouse, I understand that they have a more helpful CS system than others - I've no experience there as I use the Int or EU Warehouse.

Whilst I can't guarantee perfection, of course, with the parameters you have set re not committing too much initially, I'd bite the bullet and go for it, in the absence of any alternative.

I'd be very surprised if you're not well-satisfied with it.....

pete

[Bill_B]

Posted by Pete B - Moderator on 16/12/2013 22:07:33:

I've made a lot of purchases from HK and in the overwhelming majority of cases I've been totally happy that the purchase has met my expectations in terms of quality and functionality. I suspect this is the case with many other customers, too. HK have certainly produced some clunkers in the past but, in my experience, they've clearly improved many of their products in recent times.

pete

I'm in agreement Pete, I've never had a bad HK experience yet and have had 42 orders from them so far (UK & Hong Kong warehouse). The other nice EDF I've had is the Durafly Vampire, again from HK, and it is a very easy to plane to fly.

[Paul Turner 2]

Yes I have also heard many positive comments about the vampire too, but again not so keen on looks. Thanks guys for you're advice, I'm gonna give HK a shot and then perhaps buy something a bit nicer in a year or so.

[scott cuppello]

Enjoying the irony of being the HK detractor here and everybody else being the defender.......how times have changed!

Well, speaking of my recent experiences as a customer, I have had a bad run recently of warranty issues with HK products which have been handled very badly by CS (nightmare would be more accurate) one order I recieved recently had a 30% failure rate..........sorry but things are going downhill as far as I can tell and it is because of a distinct lack of QC, my old department has become slack.

Back to the subject in hand, don't be tempted to go for a larger lipo than reccomended in the Stinger, there is little room and it will ruin the flight characteristics........bad internet reviews on a product that is generally rated as good usually means that the product may have some QC issues (as opposed to it being a bad product) but it also usually means it has found it's way into the hands of some individuals who don't know what they are doing, the Stinger is a prime example..........a nose heavy EDF doesn't want to hand-launch, lands fast, is usually slow and can often be snappy and ironically, larger batteries don't usually extend flight times for the afformentioned reasons!......other than that, I don't know of any real faults with it.....hope it goes well for you.

Edited By scott cuppello on 17/12/2013 09:22:42

Edited By scott cuppello on 17/12/2013 09:23:49

[Bill_B]

You could always cobble together one of these for yourself: A highly modified Multiplex Funjet with a Wemotec Evo EDF (HET 2W-20) & thrust tube. Without doubt the sweetest handling EDF I've flown to date. All you need is a bit of imagination, a sharp scalpel, some Fablon and a 'scale' canopy from Parkflyerplatics.com.

[scott cuppello]

Sweet......nice job.

[Frank Skilbeck]

Oh that's nice, come on MPX what are you waiting for

[Pete B]

A bit off-topic but the Funjet reminded me of this, seen at the BEFA Fly-in at Middle Wallop back in the summer:

Very fast and a nice 'twin' sound, too. Versatile little beasties, aren't they?

Pete

[Erfolg]

I think this has a tenuous link to the question asked, in a broad sense. It is a question that is essentially directed towards Scott.

I have an impression that the Chinese manufacturers are not at present orientated to selling under their own brand names, is this true?

I also get the impression that many identical models are sold under a variety of brand names, dependant on the market distributor. But all originating from the same factories in the Far East.

Finally I have been told that many so called bespoke models to a single distributor, are actually designed, developed and made by a Chinese manufacturer. The role of the distributor being one of a product specifier and guaranteeing that they will take a minimum number of units in a period.

So I am asking what is true and not true or maybe half true.

Edited By Erfolg on 17/12/2013 15:50:53

Edited By Erfolg on 17/12/2013 15:52:41

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

Posted by scott cuppello on 17/12/2013 09:16:56:

Enjoying the irony of being the HK detractor here and everybody else being the defender.......how times have changed!

Well, speaking of my recent experiences as a customer, I have had a bad run recently of warranty issues with HK products which have been handled very badly by CS (nightmare would be more accurate)

If you want any tips for dealing with HK CS Scott, drop me a PM !!!

I did resolve the problems with my Hunter eventually which you may recall giving me some advice about but it took an inordinate number of emails and a strongly worded one in capital letters before they saw reason. With a correctly specified 6S capable fan unit it is a superb performer!

To get to the real point, that Hunter is a re-branded Lander unit that was supplied fitted out with motor, servos and retracts rather than as a bare airframe as implied by the Lander instructions enclosed with the package. Unfortunately the fan unit (again, on investigation fond to be a Lander product) was a lower powered unit designed for 4-5 cells and using the suggested 6S battery melted the motor and ruined the battery after 3 1/2 flights.

I suspect that many of the HK products are simple re-brands - many of them are very good buys but be prepared to stand your ground if you are unlucky with your choice!

[crispin church]

i have had a few HK planes and all be ok

just remember its all made to a budget on one i changed 2 servos that stripped and a different prop

[steve-richards]

The Radjet 800 is only £48 including postage from hobbyking uk

[Bill_B]

I take it you mean the Radjet Ultra EDF Steve? The Radjet 800 is a pusher prop. model and the OP is interested in EDF models.

[scott cuppello]

Posted by Erfolg on 17/12/2013 15:49:49:

I think this has a tenuous link to the question asked, in a broad sense. It is a question that is essentially directed towards Scott.

I have an impression that the Chinese manufacturers are not at present orientated to selling under their own brand names, is this true?

I also get the impression that many identical models are sold under a variety of brand names, dependant on the market distributor. But all originating from the same factories in the Far East.

Finally I have been told that many so called bespoke models to a single distributor, are actually designed, developed and made by a Chinese manufacturer. The role of the distributor being one of a product specifier and guaranteeing that they will take a minimum number of units in a period.

So I am asking what is true and not true or maybe half true.

Edited By Erfolg on 17/12/2013 15:50:53

Edited By Erfolg on 17/12/2013 15:52:41

 

You are finding that the Chinese (the smarter ones) are beginning to wake up to branding, FMS for instance have set up off-shoot brands (eg: ROC) because they simply can not shift enough units via re-brands like Durafly.......what was happening a couple of years ago was that the Chinese were coming up with a concept themselves, designing it and then would in effect, offer it OEM to various retailers like Hobbyking, minimum number of unit's being the name of the game, that retailer then in effect "owns" the mold.

Problem with that (being China) is that less scrupulous manufacturers then usually offer the same design, just smaller or larger to a rival! Another problem was (and to a certain extent still is) that some of these factories don't have test pilots!!!

The work we did in Hong Kong was a bit of a game changer, when I first got there the prototype failure/rejection rate was as high as 80%, Western test pilots suddenly being on the scene resulted eventually in much closer co-operation between retailer and factory.

You often see Western retailers these days claim they have been there every step of the way with regard new foam models.......tbh I reject this as very unlikely, not impossible but not likely, testing is initially done using a hand-made "CNC" (model hand carved from EPS from design drawings to test the airframe) ......they are quite fragile but easy to mod (which is the idea), there is a certain amount of skill and experience required when testing them as, for instance,  you must take into account the change in weight distribution once the model is molded in EPO......I struggle to see how some retailers/distributors can justify sending a pilot to China to test at this stage........so the point is that HK have something of an advantage right now.......once the model is molded and you have not tested it, you are stuck with it, very risky!

We progressed to helping factories with design and we started to come up with the concepts (I was responsible for models like the Durafly Zephyr, Mk 24 Spitfire, Vampire, Sea Vixen, Retro Junior, etc)........Westerners read the market so much better, RC is still a very new market in Asia.....it's easy to forget this......so it's worth a company like HK employing somebody like me if their concepts sell thousands of model aeroplanes......which they have.....so there we go, it's constantly changing and maybe you can see why models have really come on in the last 2-3 years.

The industry is struggling right now, the smaller, less scrupulous factories (some of whom just clone new designs.....hence so many versions of the same model appearing to answer that question) are starting to disappear but even now, if you left Chinese factories to their own devices, they would carry on releasing P-51's and J-3's every week......the ones that will survive are the ones who can either read the market themselves or are co-operating with Western designers and Product Specialists to produce original, good quality concepts that are not too quirky......not as easy as you think.......once you are committed to a design and have made the molds.....you are stuck with it, you can throw away as much as $35,000 if you get it wrong (that figure is potentially just molds!!).......so you can see why factories are keen to off-load a design onto a retailer, but then their branding suffers......I think that explains the situation in a nutshell.

Edited By scott cuppello on 18/12/2013 10:14:58

[Bill_B]

Thanks for the insight Scott, much appreciated.

[Simon Chambers]

I'm waiting for the multi-part serialisation in RCM&E named "The things you didn't know about where your planes come from and the hidden secrets about Chinese resellers by Scott Cupello"...

[Erfolg]

Thanks for the reply Scott. It is much appreciated.

It confirms much of my own suspicions and what I have been told.

In many respects it is not much different to the situation of my experiences whilst working for a injection. compression and much more moulding company. We we would design the moulds, often refining the product to facilitate the moulding, at the company cost. Then there was the issue of tooling cost, who would pay the cost of manufacture, tool storage etc. Often we were expected to bear all the cost in return for a guaranteed order, per year. Rather cheekily, some customers then tried to lay claim to the tooling.

I do agree, an article on the practises of the manufacturers, distributors would not only be interesting. Would RCM&E publish such a article, I doubt it, as,it would probably be frowned on, at least by some parts of the trade. Why? Some of the claims, would be shown to be stories, trailed by some, many would be seen to be just myths, that are self serving.