reg shaw Posted February 22, 2014 Author Share Posted February 22, 2014 Danny, you seem to think I'm building a 'real' aeroplane!! Remember this is only a Flying Flea, half scale at that, I'm impressed Mignet suggests stitching the fabric on at all. He even says to sew the leading edges!!! The materials came from Skycraft Ltd, address is here **LINK** Ian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john melia 1 Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 Reg not sure if you have already seen this vid , but the aircraft you are building is on ...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reg shaw Posted February 22, 2014 Author Share Posted February 22, 2014 Cheers for that John, the Shuttleworth Flea is a beauty! Managed some time on the Flea tonight, after starting to plaster my missus' workshop. The dope was thinned 50 / 50 and brushed on. After the first coat, adhesive was brushed along the ribs and the tapes attached. The adhesive is thick and dries quickly, but brushing more dope through the tape softens the adhesive again and makes an easy job of holding the tape down. Great care needs to be taken not to warp the surface as the fabric has tremendous pull. The perimeter tape goes on last, glue the very edge of the surface, adhere the tape at one end and pull it round the outline. Pulling quite tight means the tape can go on without wrinkles and makes a nice tidy edge. This is very pleasing material to work with for sure. So far, its had two full coats of thinned dope, might try a bit of silver, fingers crossed the weave is filled or it'll look a bit poo with pinholes all over it!! Ian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Bott - Moderator Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 Ian you make it look so easy! Brilliant stuff, can't wait to see it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Bennett Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 x2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plummet Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 It occurs to me to mention that if you are interested in this sort of covering material, but for smaller models then Sig Koverall is very similar, but I believe is somewhat lighter in weight. Of course it may be that it is lighter because it is more porous, and so needs more filler and dope to seal it but... Plummet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reg shaw Posted February 23, 2014 Author Share Posted February 23, 2014 This Diatex stuff is indeed like Sig Coverall. I think (but might be wrong as I've never used it) Sig Coverall is actually a product called Ceconite in the full size world. Diatex is available in at least three weights, 1000, 1500 and 2000. The 1000 is the lightest and I'm using 1500 as I had it!! The beauty of using it it the roll width and available lengths. Cheers for the kind words, though it is easier than it looks!! Ian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly-navy Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 Now why am I not surprised this is turning out so nice Reg !! Looking forward to the completion and you sitting in it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john melia 1 Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 I've used sig koverall with non shrinking dope , and while it seems fine on sheeted areas it wasnt so good on open structure . Seems to take a lot of dope/talc to fill the weave on open structures , plus the final paint finish cracked , so I ended up cutting the koverall away and used solarfilm over the open areas . Lot of time and effort wasted using this stuff . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cymaz Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 Lovely work Ian.... I wonder if you have asked Warwick Davies to pilot it ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plummet Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 I was being lazy. I have just looked it up and done the calculations. Sig Koverall is lighter than Diatex 1000, but only by a fraction. It is about 42 gm/sq m, while Diatex 100 is 49 gm/sq m. Plummet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reg shaw Posted February 23, 2014 Author Share Posted February 23, 2014 This evenings couple of hours saw the start of the rear wings covering. Start off by painting on the adhesive to the outlines on both top and bottom surface, then the lower side of the ribs and bracket mounts. Then cut the fabric leaving enough for the overlaps. With the wing upside down and the adhesive dry, lay the fabric on and wet through one rib bay at a time, just the outlines with neat celly thinners. This goes straight through the fabric and softens the adhesive, smooth out and run the iron over, which sets the adhesive easily. Once the whole outline is done, flip the wing over and glue down the overlap in the same way, trimming any excess material if it helps. Once done I trimmed the overlap to a neat margin. Now the fabric is completely stuck to the wing panel outlines but the rest is still baggy. I'll do the next bit tomorrow. Ian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plummet Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Reg, You say you are using celly thinners. The Skycraft folk do sell their own brand thinners for their adhesive, and I think it smells a bit different. I suppose that there is a bit of a difference between building for electronic hardware and building for wetware. I presume that you get good results with the C-Thinners. Plummet p.s. What are you doing about getting a Berty Basset Pilot for the office? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reg shaw Posted February 24, 2014 Author Share Posted February 24, 2014 Plummet, I'm just using good quality Celly thinners, I was assured it would work and it certainly seems to. Whats electronic hardware and wetware when its at home!?? I'll be making a pilot if Warwick is unavailable. If anyone would be game it'd be him. Fastened the ribs to the underside covering with thinners once it had been smoothed out a bit, then tightened it up ready for the top sides to be covered. Same as the undersides, brush adhesive onto the ribs and the outlines, then brush through to adhere the fabric. The topsides were much more difficult to do due to the dihedral and the wing section. It means there are masses of material to 'get rid of' in the centre of the panel. I needn't have worried too much though as this Diatex stuff shrinks readily. When tightening the fabric, it was important to shrink it span wise over the mainspar first, making it fairly tight before shrinking the rest of the bay. This is to stop the covering pulling against the spars making them visible through the covering. Not a major problem if it does though as it did on many full size Fleas, it just be nicer if it didn't! Stitching next, but I have to make a long needle first. Ian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plummet Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Posted by reg shaw on 24/02/2014 22:02:16:Whats electronic hardware and wetware when its at home!?? Sorry Work jargon. If you are a computer programmer then you always think that the fault is not in your programme, it is in the hardware, the electronics. If you are developing the computer electronics, you are always sure that the fault must be in the programme, the software. When the hardware developer and the software developer are finished, and they are sure that all is as it should be then any faults must be due to the user. The user is not really soft, not really hard, but if you poke them hard enough with something sharp (always tempting) then they leak - they are the wetware. I am suggesting that the cost of failure might be different if you are taking a few servos and a receiver up there rather than if you are taking a human. Plummet Edited By Plummet on 24/02/2014 22:31:03 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Jones Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Plummet , I am confident that it will fly ok and not fall out of the sky due to some failure in the build or design . Flying Fleas continue to fly to this day only there design has changed due to better understanding . Now who thinks Bertie should be flying it . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plummet Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Stephen, I was not in any way suggesting that Bertie won't fly. It was just the use of cellulose thinners rather than the adhesive manufacturer's own brew. I would guess that the C of A folk would frown if different solvents than the recommended ones were used on full-sized human carrying aircraft. I read somewhere of an aircraft in the US that crashed, with loss of life, because the home-builder had not doped it properly, and the fabric parted from the structure.. Plummet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reg shaw Posted February 25, 2014 Author Share Posted February 25, 2014 Had a play with the engine mounting today, got the Carden silencer box welded up and the firewall for the Zenoah. I went for the more awkward angled engine mounting so nothing sticks up where it shouldn't, down side is it makes for a very tight manifold (Need to weld up the big 'ole in the right side now) . I could rotate the Zenoah back a bit if I have to but it should be OK One thing I would like opinions on is where and how much baffle to fit in the silencer box? Solid plate front to back with a gap at top, solid with holes, half and half area either side of the baffle plate? Ian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cymaz Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 This might help or something on the same line The sound will bounce around the box like a bell. Anything to stop the sound and slowing it down will help. Also coat the inside with an acoustic sound proofing or high temp silicone. It will also act like a muffler. I hope I make sense Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cymaz Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 Picture Reg !! Edited By cymaz on 26/02/2014 12:43:11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying Flea Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 Hello Ian, I've really enjoyed watching the rapid progress with you're Flea, in particular the Diatex covering, it's been an education. You seem to have all the flea info I can think of, have you been in touch with Ken Ellis from Flypast magazine yet? I'm sure that he would love to see what you're doing. Ken is the Flying Flea Archive,he will have all the info you could ever need and he's a real gent to boot. He wrote the book "Henri Mignet and his Flying Fleas" with Geoff Jones, it's a great read, anyway good luck with the rest of thr build, I'm looking forward to it. Regards, Kieran. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reg shaw Posted February 28, 2014 Author Share Posted February 28, 2014 Thanks Kieran, much appreciated I did contact Flypast a few years ago with ref. to contacting Ken about the Bassett Flea but never heard back, presuming it was of no interest. I was just researching at the time though and hadn't decided on a size. At the other end to the engine, I sprayed a first coat of silver dope on the rudder last night, just to see what the colour was like and whether I'd filled the weave and was quite pleased with the results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindsay Todd Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 Impressive stuff Ian, certainly gives a nice finish although I'm guessing much of that relates to your good self. Very impressed with your sewing skills, fancy doing a big ww1 job next so need to talk to you about that sometime. Linds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Bennett Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 wowsers ian. that is looking fantastic now. cant wait to see it finished. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Jones Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 Looking better now her dress is being put on . Can't wait until she is all dolled up . Steve , Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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