This Sucks!!

[Dusty]

My field has been cloesed till June cause there is some type of special bird breeding in a farmers field nearby  to the grass landing strip!

Apparently the models will scare them... max db is 81db at my club cause of the moaning nieghbour!! Do you think I should change clubs?

this is bad!!

[Tim Mackey]

It's called live and let live dustin. Our hobby is not favoured my many people, and I am afraid that when it comes down to a fight between noisy, potentially dangerous flying toys....and wildlife conservation - we are not in a strong position !

"Moaning" neighbours have as many rights to peace and quiet etc as anyone else. Being negative toward them, especially on a public forum is not the way to sort the problem. Be glad that it is only a temporary closure, we lost a flying site that had been a modellers site for over 60 years because of a noise nuisance complaint.

[Dusty]

Sorry on the moaning nieghbours.., yes mainly because of freebe flyers who pop into the field before db  testing and get the club in trouble for noise, as when we have a new model or change a motor or prop etc we must be within limits on the noise abatement!

ya mother nature just delayed winter more... with the birds...

 never ment it to be a negative post... sorry... close it if its going to cause hard feelings... I was not directing it at a complaint but simply at frustration to not being able to fly at the club for a while longer, howver I am obeying to peoples and animal respects by not flying there till the chairman says its safe and legelly to do so...

sorry timbo, was just moaning!!

[Tim Mackey]

Thats OK dustin.... I wont close it....just wanted to introduce a little balance

When I have a moan ( and yes it has been known ) I usually end with  "rant over" 

[Alistair Taylor]

Hiya Dustin

Not sure whether this will make you fell better, but there may be a small ray of sunshine here - if a rare species of bird is nesting next to your flying field - then the chances of your field (or the farmers field where the birds nest) being built on and lost forever as a flying site are a lot slimmer than if it wasn't.

Maybe this is an opportunity to get into gliding? That's pretty quiet.

A club I used to belong to lost one flying field when it was bought from the RAF and converted into farmland, and had such stringent noise restrictions placed on its other site that RC flying effectively stopped. As with you - it was one "moaning neighbour" behind the noise complaints (no names or places to spare the innocent). In such cases it's always best to try to keep relations as civil as possible, as the law is usually weighted in favour of the local homeowner over the noise producers.

Maybe you need to invite your noise concious neighbour over to learn how to fly?

AlistairT

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[Dusty]

LOL at the story Eric... always got to have humour! Yes Alister I was considering some type of glider. There are so many out there but its more of fiding the  "write one" ie size, price, bungee launch, slope soaring etc... There not to many hills around me so I would presume a small electric one would be the answer as there are loads of quiet fields nearby...

As for the neighbour on learning to fly, I think someone did invite them sometime ago, it seemed they preferred watching planes flying and crashing in fron of their plot and I am sure having a big grin on their faces, after all probably one less buzz in the air for them lol

[Erfolg]

Dustin

The club that I fly with is now primarily Electric, this is a consequence from flying on NT land (with the farmers permission), a bird santuary very close by and housing about 1km away. For those who want to fly power they can go about 10km to a NT Park. As far as I am aware no one from the RC part of the club goes  there.

From a noise perspective, electrics are quite, unless somthing is wrong or perhaps a pusher flying wing. Your Ripmax Spit or Me may not sound like a Merlin. But neither does a 2 or 4 stroke.

With advent of affordable Brushless and Lipos, there is no longer the issue of having to compromise on model choice. You may argue that electrics are a lot more lightly built, but that is because there is no significantly vibrating mass on the front which of neccesity needs damping and strength to resist the vibration.

So why not try electric and keep flying.

Optimistically Yours

Erfolg

[Mike Downs]

Most airports have a bird scaring team to keep them AWAY from noisy airplanes...In my experience there is no worse danger to birds than other birds

[flytilbroke]

If the birds were so scared of the planes or noise they would never be there in the first place. I have seen this overplayed protectionism before. Currently it is rife in the Cairngorm National Park and the smartypants in charge know a lot less than they think they do. Witness the wildlife was there before they started interfering. In general it is habitat that is crucial, not third party activity.

 I do stand up for protecting the habitat though and thereby allowing wildlife to have a home.

[Alistair Taylor]

The thing is....there's birds and there's birds, and there's habitats, and there's habitats....

Seagulls, pigeons and the like that frequent airports, landfill sites and town centres across this green and pleasant land are usually the sort of bird you want to keep away from airports because they are habituated to human activity and fly around in flocks. Jet engines can cope with one or two birdstrikes, but sucking in a flock of herring gulls is not good for your pratt and watneys. "Proper" wild birds, that are usually protected by legislation, tend to prefer undisturbed areas of good, if not pristine natural habitat, and wouldn't go near terminal 5 for love nor money. As i think I said above - if you've got these near or even on your flying site - they offer much better protection against development/motorway construction than saying "I like to fly toy planes here...". (please note, I'm not saying this is right or wrong, that's just the way it is)

Parts of the Cairngorms are a fantastic example of what happens when grazing animals (deer and sheep) are allowed to roam freely (and protected for the purposes of  shooting) in the absence of any natural predators (wolves, bears), i.e. no trees, few if any wildflowers, bowling green grass as far as the eye can see, and an overpopulation of deer (I like deer, they're cute, they taste good, but they prevent trees regenerating because they eat the tops off the sprouting saplings). The Cairngorms used to be forested (and therefore probably not ideal for slope soaring, but let's not go there). Of course, planting industrial rows of non-native sitka spruce trees in square blocks surrounded by fences is not the answer, as you end up with a completely man-made landscape, but getting back to a landscape even in the same ballpark as it used to be (should be? you decide) is going to require massive management interventions (shooting deer and planting trees). Should they bother? Is it worth the expense?

Of course - you could argue that as global warming is likely to change the British climate pretty fundamentally over the next few years they shouldn't bother, and should instead wait for the deer to die out and be replaced by camels......

It's a good discussion this!  

I'm with the birds - they're much better at reading thermals/turbulence than I ever will be, and seem to take great delight in flying in winds that confine me to the building shed.

AlistairT

[Erfolg]

Alistair

Where is the bowling green grass in the Caingorms, when my daughter lived in Inverness, we traveled through the Cairngorms (Perth-Inverness) on a  monthly basis. No trees in many parts, no grass, no deer, just bare rock and thousands of Tesco wagons clogging the road.  Now lives in Aberdeen, there is grass etc. oh because they farm the land.

Regarding protected birds etc. We fly adjacent to a bird santuary, Buzzards take no interest, Seagulls seem to be blind, skylarks get out of the way, them bloody rooks will try and gang up on you. I would say by and large birds take no interst, the occaisonal fox walk through the field, and have a good look, as if to say what are you idiots doing, staring at the sky and huddled together? There is no one more biggoted as the rightous and the protector of fairness.

Electric models do not bother them, power just keeps them away. Whoever said that Wardens can get a bee in there bonnet is almost certainly right, as i am aware that a nature warden tried to close (deny access to field) a local club on failing, then tried to place restrictions on when thay could fly (time of year).

Go Electric

regards

Erfolg

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[Erfolg]

Eric

Seen something similar done on the Helsby cliff. Although in that instance it was an orthinological attack turned (or is that looped) into a victory for the intrepid RC pilot.

Erfolg

[Nicholas Booth]

I fly @ a site that is also restricted to 81db and has stron planning permission in place also. We can only fly Monday to Saturday 9am-1pm and 3pm to 7pm and nothing at all on Sundays. This was mostly caused by someone being irrated by something a long while ago and whilst it seems unfair, I guess if you think about it, take something that annoys you and then be subjected to it every day, it can become an obsession and in my fields case is probably so. The main complainee actually admitted that it wasn't so much the noise than he just didn't want us there fullstop.

It causes working flyers like myself some real issues as in the winter I only get to fly on Saturday mornings.....think about that. I have however just joined a second club after only managing to fly 4 times since November and guess what, work has picked up and am working most weekends as well now......its work that should be restricted not the flying sites..

Nick

[Erfolg]

Nicholas

Why oh why do you not try electrics?

The cost is no longer prohibitive, performance is on par with IC. The kit required to fly the model is none existent, just the model and tranny.

OK there is no noise, but flying is the thing, surely!

Just switch on, plug in and go!

Bite the bullet

Erfolg

[Nicholas Booth]

Hi Erfolg

 I do fly electrics, see my gallery pictures http://www.modelflying.co.uk/gallery/image.asp?sp=&v=5&uabn=244&uin=1944

The picture is of my Top Flite DC3 that I built converting to Electric and as yet not flown. This sits along side 3 great planes electric fun fly planes, a foamie F15, formosa. The problem we have as the field now is that there is UK planning permission placed on our field that restricts flying to the times mentioned. My workload cannot be adjusted at the moment so have to continue missing out until later on this year which is a great shame and to be honest it has also impacted on my wanting to build. I currently have 3 planes waiting to be test flown with 2 more on the way. the sooner I get to fly the better.

I would like to say that I like to balance my models powers with a mix of electric and IC with my largest being the Seagull YAK 54 running with a Saito 125. However, my company share options soon about to be released may well fund something in the 50cc petrol range for my new flying field........I am thinking it might be time for a Spitfire

[Myron Beaumont]

Please find my forward to Timbo he's put on another thread for my opinions etc Not sure of the title but its to do with the possibility of losing flying sites . Very poignant !

Grumpy (etc) Myron .

Its here actually... Noah and the planners

[Bob Howard]

Maybe some birds are disturbed by our models, but I am sure this is overplayed.

 A couple of years ago I was wringing out a very fast Acrowot with a Laser 75 up the front when I realised "I was not alone". A huge bird had joined my plane in the circuit. It was uncomfortable to fly like that, and dangerous to both the model and the bird, so I landed, taxied in and waited for it to clear off.

When it finally went, I waited until it was several hundred yards away before resuming my aerobatics. Within 2 minutes the perisher was back. I took the hint, landed and went for a cuppa!

 Another club member took some photos, from which we had it identified. We all though it was a Red Kite, but it now appears to have been a Buzzard.

With regard to the nesting birds, the point is - if our models can frighten them, why have they nested near a pre-existing flying site. The whole thing is abject twaddle!

[Alistair Taylor]

Hiya Bob

Sounds like your buzzardly friend was trying to pick up some aerobatics tips

If your flying site is next to land that was intensively farmed arable land, that is now being restored/farmed in a more environmentally friendly way (less chemicals, more hedges, patches of set aside round the dges) then you'll probably find that the birds that "appear" are actually returning to the places they used to nest in before farming went all industrial post war (and before R/C went proportional).

As I said above - if you have rare birds nesting on or around your flying field, you stand a much better chance of keeping it as a field (as opposed to a carpark/housing estate/shopping arcade) than otherwise. Birds are legally protected, model flying isn't.

Of course if you're flying on the Stonehenge Intergalactic spaceport (establised 2 Million BC) then OK, fair point, you got there first. Kick those cheeky birds off immediately

AlistairT

[Erfolg]

I do think a sence of balance is necessary. I am not sure that the local council has taken a balanced view.

As stated the field could potentially be wiped out by a housing development, on the field or near by. If the field was made into a bird santuary by the owner, there can be no argument. In an island that is generally overpopulated (south of the Ribble and Tyne), there needs to be a balanced approach of co-existance with wildlife. The 5 new towns planned by Goverment will decimate (at least 1 in 10) birds in that region.

Could not a way be found of limited numbers in the field, flying none IC planes during certain periods?

I co-existed with a Robin nest in my extension (under construction) this spring/summer whilst a brood of 4 chickswere raised sucessfully.

May be worth your club pressing the council, the "crying baby gets picked up" syndrome. Allthough councils do not like challenges, but love control, yet they will often  reach a settlement, as long as they are not seen to loose and are seen to be helping the community. Some parties are worse than others in this respect, and should be known as the "we know best and are fair" party .

Erfolg

[Aussie Bob]

  Come to Australia.Our strip at our field is 1 kilometre long .

[Bob Howard]

Some years ago, I was negotiation with a local authority to win a new flying site. One of the requirements was that we demonstrate our models to a group of council officiers.

As the site was a council sports fileld, adjacent to a nature reserve, the group included both the Head Nature Warden and the sports field manager.

Unfortunately, the wind direction decreed that my first take off took the model over a flock of Canada Geese grazing in the middle of the field. One or two of the birds raised their heads to watch this strange apparition fly overhead, then carried on grazing, totally unconcerned.

The bearded & sandalled nature warden remarked "Amazing - it does not appear to have disturbed the birds at all".

"Bugger" replied the sports centre manager.

His expletive began to make sense some months later, when regular flying commenced. The ground had large notices at each entrance forbidding the exercising of dogs, as it was clearly unhealthy for footballers and the like to be rolling around in the mess they left behind. Sadly for them, goose crap is even more unpleasant - and plentiful.

[Alistair Taylor]

 I like it....

What the sports centre manager should have borne in mind was that if the geese were grazing the grass on the sports field, they would have been saving him a tidy sum in mowing costs.

I bet Ronaldo wouldn't dive half as much if premier league pitches were coated in a thin veneer of goose poo.

 AlistairT

[Bob Howard]

We are talking about footballers - probaly too thick to recognise crap of any variety.

 Anyway, they have wrecked our runway - the gooves created by numerouse dragged knuckles are horrendous.