Colin Leighfield Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 That's the first one that I found last night Terry. There are others. I want to read the stuff I've got back home, but in the meantime I know what I'm thinking. The plan needs very close inspection I think, although I don't doubt that plenty of these have been built and flown successfully so it's probably not critical, just worth thinking about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Walters Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 Danny/Colin - In respect of the general issues have a look at this. Tim Cheal's comments and others that have gone before us confirm and expand on a few things we are experiencing. Terry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Leighfield Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 It all goes to show that there's nothing new under the sun, someone's always been there before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Fenton Posted October 29, 2014 Author Share Posted October 29, 2014 Good find Terry, and Tim used a similar route to build the wing as I did that's reassuring. All his comments are valid re the problems with things alligning especially the hinges. Cheers Danny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David P Williams Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 Happy to stand corrected on the washout, particularly as I remembered being told that the triangular strips were there to generate a buffet on the elevators to give warning of an impending stall. Maybe they do a bit of both. The SLEC/Apache kit has jigging tabs on the ribs and I just built the wing accordingly - it has no noticable washout and these are supposed to be good flyers......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 Posted by Danny Fenton on 28/10/2014 22:19:31: Hi John, having said so firmly that it is easy enough to sheet, I think following the plan in this instance is better. I would suggest you plank it as John has done. My upper fus really doesn't want to hold its shape. Whereas planking as John has proved will stay true. Trying to get my head around how to make the tailplane seat, nothing is obvious on this plan is it Cheers Danny You have the offcuts from the t/plane ribs, they would help ? John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Fenton Posted October 29, 2014 Author Share Posted October 29, 2014 Hi John, yes i keep all those outer parts so its easy to make replacements. I traced the blocks from the plan and made them up they are incredibly thin. But should work. I made two one sits on each crutch section. I think I need to tape and pin everything together to get a feel for incidences. To this end i thought I would look at the wing seat.....deep sigh, despite being as accurate as I can the wing doesn't fit. I guess i shouldn't be surprised. More tweaking needed here clearly. Cheers Danny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Timmis Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 Hi everyone, Might be able to answer the washout question soon. My no 1 chippie, athough far from finished, should be in a flyable state in a week or two. The model was built as per plan, as far as I remember, because 30yrs ago I knew no better. I'll give some weight & power figures before the first fright. Cheers John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martian Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 it is certainly disheartening after paying for laser cut parts not to have a good fit it's bad enough if you cut them wrong yourself and have to do tweaking ,doesn't make me readily want to go down the laser cut route Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Walters Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 Martian, Yes I know how you feel but before judging the laser cutting you need to check if the parts match the plan. If they do then it's the designer that is the one responsible. Usually it's a bit of both..... Terry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 That's disappointing Danny I hope it's an easy tweak When I built my fuzz lower section I sat pondering for ages,i thought I was dumb and missing the obvious, so i'm pleased to see you do it the same way. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martyn K Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 I think that we are forgetting that this is just how it used to be. In the old days before 'pooters were as common as they are now, everything was drawn by hand. It was part of the assembly process to get things to fit properly, often reworking what the designer did. I have run into the same problem with my Concept build with one or two fundamental errors like formers too narrow, fin ribs wider than the fuselage etc. I agree that it may be a bit disappointing, but this where you start to qualify as an engineer and move beyond being an assembler. I prefer to sort these things out, I just wish I was as articulate as Danny at explaining things. Martyn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Fenton Posted October 29, 2014 Author Share Posted October 29, 2014 I would agree to a point Martyn but Brian Taylors plans are of a similar vintage and as accurate as a cad design. The parts match the drawings so its not the lasercutting. In fact I would say the laser work is very good. I am dissapointed that Traplet clearly have put it into cad to create the fancy images, shame they didn't use those files to create the cutting list...... I don't mind trimming away but at the end of the day this will alter the incidence dramatically if you get it wrong! Cheers Danny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martyn K Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 Hi Danny I am not making excuses for the missing parts - that's just shabby. My point is that we need to be careful if we blindly assume that all the laser cut parts will be guaranteed to fit to a hand drawn plan - even it they are cut exactly as presented. There is just too much scope for error transposing part of the plan to another part if it wasn't CAD created in the first place. OK on Brian Taylor's plans. I have no experience of these but I have heard they are very good. I suppose that is the original draughtsman's skill showing through. Martyn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Fenton Posted October 29, 2014 Author Share Posted October 29, 2014 I think you are right, Brian is an excellent draughtsman. All Traplet appear to have done is trace the plan electronically which is normal practice however. I am just spoilt with either cad drawings or Brians work to build from...... I am sure we will persevere, after all I have an incidence gauge Cheers Danny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Fenton Posted October 29, 2014 Author Share Posted October 29, 2014 Well I seem to have spent ages getting nowhere. If somebody can show how the fairings go together underneath that would be great I am good with it all apart from the ply part G5 (by the way the balsa part labelled G5 is actually G3) I think I have the tailplane seat even now and both sides are at the same height I then went back to the wing fairing, first of all I trued up the wing, making sure it is perpendicular to the fuselage. Cheers Danny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Walters Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 Danny - I feel you are a bit challenged at the moment so here's a couple of treats for you:- Duxford last week Better now? Terry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis Mulhair Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 Danny, going back to the sheeting/planking stage you refer to amoina to break down the wood fibers. Did you but this specially and if so where you you get it or is a kitchen commodity? by the way NICE JOB!! Dennis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Wolf Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 Dennis you could give the chemist a try as this was the last place that I bought any ammonia from. Have been following the washout comments with great interest. Are there any firm conclusions with regards any been designed into our plan? I do not wish to add any more if not necessary and it is likely to effect the general flight envelope. Promise to stop lurking soon and join the building, very enjoyable chat with Danny at Gaydon. SW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Day Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 I suspect that a cold shower was needed after those Terry! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Day Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 A couple of questions Danny. Is the centre section fully sheeted, top and bottom? If yes, as it seems to be, is there any reason I shouldn't do the servos, linkages and bellcranks the other way up so that the rods travel closer to the outer skin and the final linkage can be closer to the horizontal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Fenton Posted October 29, 2014 Author Share Posted October 29, 2014 Hi chaps, just been showing the bits to my clubmates,managed to catch the fus with the tailgate and have wrecked a former, easily fixed that will teach me for taking it out unfinished Thanks for all the lovely rivets Terry, but its not my birthday...... Hi Dennis, ammonia is readily available on Ebay, still used for cleaning. Ideally you want the strong stuff, if it doesn't have your eyes streaming then its not strong enough Hi Nigel the centre section is sheet underneath with the big flutes, they really restrict the servos to being on their sides. The upper surface is sheeted apart from a window so you can remove a servo if need be. Remember the top of the wing will probably be your cockpit floor, if you are doing one Cheers Danny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Fenton Posted October 30, 2014 Author Share Posted October 30, 2014 The packaging on this ammonia looks identical to the bottle I have..... Cheers Danny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Leighfield Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Don't forget though chaps that this is nasty stuff and affects some people more than others. On the hazardous substance scale 1-5 it's rated 3, so it's mid range toxic as well as corrosive. I know that we're all sensible, but some might not be aware of the risks associated with it. It certainly needs more care than cyano and some people are nervous of that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Fenton Posted October 30, 2014 Author Share Posted October 30, 2014 Yes thanks Colin, I should have said something along those lines "Let's be careful out there" Cheers Danny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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