Masher Posted December 17, 2014 Author Share Posted December 17, 2014 No such luck for me - even the bike pump is one of these modern things that doesn't have the flexible bit! Another afternoon flying in the wind for me, then come back with a bit more enthusiasm! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon H Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 That's a pain. I got a little 12v compressor for about 4.99 with a few gallons of petrol. I cut off the cigarette lighter end and put some banana plugs on it with a little clicker switch in line. its got one of those lever type fittings for the valve and it works just fine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Masher Posted December 17, 2014 Author Share Posted December 17, 2014 I'm doomed I tell you! Managed to get a little air into the system from my compressor - almost impossible from the foot pump. So I am either missing the point or the air input valve is bust. (or maybe the air storage cylinder valve?) When I did get some air in, I enjoyed the sound of air leaks at the control valves - the bleed screws have to be fully tightened or air leaks from them. I have had retracts up an down positively but not consistently. Need to buy some spare valves I think. Or maybe I should stick to simple models. At least I had a good afternoon flying! Edited By Masher on 17/12/2014 17:27:53 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Marsh Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 The air retract systems you get with ARTF's - chuck them in the bin,they are worse than useless! I had a set in my Black Horse T-28 Trojan , totally useless, they fell to bits on the bench, as the arms were made of cardboard (really!) and the air leaked like an old church roof. They went in the bin and fitted decent Horizon Trike set - expensive, but worth every penny and given me perfect pins everytime. Same with a YT Spit, replaced with Horizon specials and fine. Do your self a favor and do the same... The retracts on mine seem okay, just put some grease on the runners, use a good Hitec HS75 retract servo and it works. Not ideal, but it works. I left the doors off, to make it simpler and anything that can cause a problem WILL! Edited By Paul Marsh on 17/12/2014 18:11:08 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.. Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 Are they no good Masher or worth persevering with? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Masher Posted December 18, 2014 Author Share Posted December 18, 2014 I think they will be fine Justin, I'm sure it's just finger trouble on my part. The actual retracts and Oleos are significantly better than those supplied with the ARTF - there is very little slop and they have a much better quality finish. I will keep you posted. First thing I have to sort is how I get air into the system and take it from there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon H Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 Hi masher, the leaking air from the control valve..is that all the time or just when the legs are in transit? if its the latter then that's perfectly normal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Masher Posted December 18, 2014 Author Share Posted December 18, 2014 It leaks all the time if the valves aren't fully screwed in Jon. Then of course the retracts don't work if the valve is fully closed. I have just wasted my final 2 hours on this problem. I have managed to get air in from the foot pump (my knee now aches!!!). Sometimes one or two of the retracts will work and once or twice I even got all 3 to work - but they are totally unreliable, random and too unreliable to put in a plane. I've checked all joints, oiled up every moving part and generally looked for failure mechanisms. Taking the control valve to bits gives a clue! Aluminium shaft with weedy O rings running against a poorly machined aluminium cylinder to make the seal - no wonder it leaks. I worked all 3 units by hand for about 5 minutes to try and free them up a bit but didn't do any good. I'm out of time on this problem now and fast loosing interest. JP have finally come back with an address for me to return the original supplied items so I suppose I'll just do that. I realise this will be my fault in the end but I do have 40 years engineering experience so I'm not a novice At least I can use the Oleos on the original retracts I suppose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon H Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 im sorry to hear that, they were no bother when I used to sell them here. it sounds like the piston seals could be the cause of the problem. If you like, put the whole lot in a box and post them too me. I will see what I can do to fix them. I have access to machines and O rings etc so I am hopeful I can get them operational Edited By Jon Harper on 18/12/2014 10:47:09 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Masher Posted December 18, 2014 Author Share Posted December 18, 2014 Thanks for that kind offer Jon - I have pm'd you They do come with spare O rings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.. Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 Would a Robart or simalar valve solve the problem or are they just poorly made? I expect I will have mine delivered today so I will probably not open them & post them back for a refund. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Masher Posted December 18, 2014 Author Share Posted December 18, 2014 Well Justin,I think these are a direct copy of the Robart ones - although I've only seen the Robart ones online here. If possible, either play with yours or wait to see what Jon says when he plays with mine (so to speak) You can replace all valves and parts with better quality ones but the price mounts up. RC World do a fair few parts. So don't write these off yet, I'm still hopeful that it's my finger trouble Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.. Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 That's a good article find Masher. I will hold fire over Christmas but won't open anything presuming they will go back. It's anoying tho as they should work from new Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon H Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 I will check them out as soon as they arrive. It could be a hook up problem but I doubt it. I will post my findings asap. A cheap alternative valve could be the YT valve as I have found them to be just fine. The problem is, loads of people slate them as being useless. I can only comment from my own experience and found them to be good, and never had any returns on this brand of retracts when I was selling them. Anyway, with luck we can get everything sorted and our wheels retracted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.. Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 Thanks Jon , I look forward to seeing how you get on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.. Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 Would this be a suitable replacement? **LINK** Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Masher Posted December 19, 2014 Author Share Posted December 19, 2014 I think those are the 'originals' of which the HK ones are a copy so yes they would. However I think someone said the Robart ones were not great and if you look at cost plus p+p, it's about the same price as the complete set from HK. I think that if Jon decides the HK ones are not fit, I will just bite the bullet and get some E-flite electric retracts (about £120 for our size) rather than spend more money on the pneumatic approach. Eg E-Flite 60-120 size about £120 here Edited By Masher on 19/12/2014 10:28:37 Edited By Masher on 19/12/2014 10:29:23 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.. Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 Yes I know what your saying Masher, my thinking was if the replacement valve worked you would have a decent set of retracts for £75 But its a risk & more expense. Mine are sealed in a bag so I cant really have a good inspection & I'm loathed to take them out as I wont get a full refund if I do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.. Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 Any update on the retracts Masher ? I sent mine back unopened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Masher Posted December 31, 2014 Author Share Posted December 31, 2014 No nothing yet. You probably did the right thing, even if we get them sorted, you could re-order. Main issue is, it means the build is halted until this is resolved and, for me anyway, this can mean that I never get going again! Still our patch and the weather are not conducive to flying Spitfire's at the moment. I'll keep you updated as and when. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.. Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 Thanks mate I hope you get it sorted soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon H Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 I received the retracts and at first glance could not nee anything wring with the setup. the pipes are a bit pants as they seem to fall off the nipples. Anyway I have not had the chance to really look at it as I have a friend over from the US for Christmas. I will get on it as soon as I can Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Masher Posted December 31, 2014 Author Share Posted December 31, 2014 Glad you've got them Jon, as and when is fine. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Masher Posted January 6, 2015 Author Share Posted January 6, 2015 Well I received replacement mechanical retracts from JP today. Whilst they are identical, they do seem to be much more positively locking and have less slop than the original set. Worth fitting in situ and connecting to the retract servo I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon H Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 I finally managed to get around and look at Mashers retracts. There was nothing wrong with the setup and I traced the fault back to a dodgy O ring on the piston of one retract unit This was allowing air to leak past it and out of the spool valve. This was what I suspected in the first place but it was handy having everything in hand so as to check it. There were also leaks from the two blanked off pipes so I replaced the 4 way connectors with some Y connectors I had in my box. I was able to replace the O ring with the spare supplied with the retracts. It was a much tighter fit and the system works very well when pumped to 80psi and held pressure for a simulated 10 minute flight. In fact there was only a 2psi drop in pressure over the 10 minutes and as about 4psi is used per cycle and the system still works as low at 50psi there should be no issues at all. While I was at it I disassembled the two units and rebuilt them with threadlock, I also had to modify one frame slightly to make fitting the pipe easier. I have left everything connected and can send it back at your convenience Edited By Jon Harper on 10/01/2015 16:10:23 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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