Masher Posted January 10, 2015 Author Share Posted January 10, 2015 Well done Jon, that's great news thanks very much. Just pm me costs. I am pleased you have done this because although I have got the replacement mechanicals from JP to work, I wouldn't want to have to rely on them! I have spent a few hours fettling and they work most of the time but I hate to think what current the retract servo is pulling! I think I will do some current measurements to confirm but I would probably only be "happy" if I used a separate battery for retracts rather than risk receiver drop out. I think I have discovered that moving up the model complexity ladder requires a disproportionate amount of effort/knowledge - and I haven't even flown it yet! Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon H Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 It has to be said that 60 size warbirds are the most difficult and accident prone models there are. The reasons for this are split between the nature of the model, and the often over confident pilot expecting it to be like the 4 channel low winger he has been flying for the past 6 months. Landings are usually where most mishaps occur and retracts are extremely fragile compared to fixed gear so each landing must be pretty much perfect. Other mistakes include excessive rates (elevator especially), using expo when a warbird should not need it and not letting the model run and doing too much 'bank a yank' stuff. it should be smooth! The rewards however are that you get to fly your favourite warbird and eventually move towards 80inch stuff which is actually easier to fly. I have been guiding a chap at my club through all of this in the past year or so and while he is quite experienced he was unprepared for the world of WWII. Anyway, im sure it will all be fine. As it happens the chap I have been helping has one of these seafires and it flys well even though he has overpowered it. What powerplant are you using? Edited By Jon Harper on 10/01/2015 17:06:39 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Masher Posted January 10, 2015 Author Share Posted January 10, 2015 I've fitted an ASP 120 FS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon H Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 That will be more than enough and in my opinion quite overpowered. Use a 15x8 prop and take care on takeoff/landing when applying power as the torque will be very pronounced and could get you into trouble Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Masher Posted January 10, 2015 Author Share Posted January 10, 2015 Sorry Jon, just checked and it's a 100 FS! This was chosen as top of the recommended FS range by Escale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon H Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 The 100 would be my top end choice and should be fine. Again I would normally use a 15x8 on my Laser 100 but the Laser has a lot of torque. Which motor do you have because ASP don't do a 100. Only Laser and Saito do. OS do a 110 if I recall... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Masher Posted January 10, 2015 Author Share Posted January 10, 2015 Oh well, how many times can I get this wrong! I have fitted an ASP 120 not a 100. The only other option I have at the moment is an ASP 80 FS which I assumed was too small. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon H Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 haha, so much confusion! Anyway, the 120 will be, as stated, excessive and 1/2 throttle should be plenty for scale flying. The 80 would fly it but it wouldn't really zoom about. I had a 62 inch hurricane that I flew with a laser 80 and it was more than enough, but this model is a bit bigger and I think the 80 would not give much in the vertical Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Masher Posted January 10, 2015 Author Share Posted January 10, 2015 Thanks Jon - I will see how the CofG comes out and go with the 120 if it's not nose heavy. Otherwise it's time to look out for a 100! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon H Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 If you have the 120 in hand and its all together and working then I wouldn't bother changing it. Just go easy with the loud stick and you will be ok. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Marsh Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 The OS 120 FS pump I got in mine is over-powered, but there when you need it, and I did when I flew it at a very windy Eastnor last year, and had it at full throttle for most of the flight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Masher Posted January 10, 2015 Author Share Posted January 10, 2015 Yes I saw you fly it Paul, was the CofG ok with the 120? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon H Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 The chap at my club has had two (first one died when the rx went funny) and powered them with enya 120's. The first needed very little ballast the second needs a lot. In fact the second model is not a patch on the first in terms of quality/flying performance which is most odd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Masher Posted January 11, 2015 Author Share Posted January 11, 2015 Yes that variability is a bit of a concern, just hope mine is a good one. Shame ballast is needed even with such a large engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Marsh Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 Like all my models, I don't use lead. So the Seafire has no lead at all, just a engine and a 5 cell sub-c pack in the nose. Why put lead when you can use a bigger engine and battery pack, which both should keep you out of trouble in both instances... My goes well, the trims are all in the neutral, and any day I fly it doesn't seem to make a difference, even with full flap comes in level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon H Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 I would always put lead in and the idea of using a bigger engine instead is not a good one as it leads to overpowered models that are in many instances more difficult to fly because of being overpowered. My 80 inch seafury for example has the battery right forward and a Laser 360v in the nose. It then had 2lbs of lead on a bracket below the engine. Adding a larger engine would be crazy as the 360v is already at the top end. As I have stated on other threads, full size spitfires/hurricanes etc have compartments where lead is added to achieve the correct c/g, and if its good enough for them...... I do not understand why people complain about ballast. the model must balance and it weighs what it weighs. If it ends up heavy for its size then its time for a grumble! Edited By Jon Harper on 11/01/2015 10:32:24 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Marsh Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 There is a thing called a "throttle" not a switch, you don't have to fly at full power, really!!! An engine running at 60% of its power is much better than a smaller engine running flat out just to keep the model in the air. Why put lead in, it's dead weight. I hate dead weight! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon H Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 I am not saying the model should be under powered. but if you have a model that will fly perfectly well at 60% throttle on say a 90, and then you fit a 120 just to aid the balance that pointless and overpowering it and can make it unpleasant to fly, especially when trying to slow down and land. The notion of dead weight is also a puzzle, as none of the weight is dead. The batteries power the radio, the engine pulls it along, the airframe is....the airframe and the lead is for balance. Its not dead, it has a purpose. Now if you wanted to use a bigger battery for more flights in a day and loose some lead then fair enough. But again, how big a battery do you need? most of us don't have more than 3 or 4 flights per model per day so a battery that is flat after 6 flights would be ideal. fitting a bigger one can cause other issues. The long and the short of it is that most scale models will need ballast to balance them. It is unavoidable and I don't worry about it. I do try and keep tails light and weight forward to minimise the amount of ballast required, but its really not a problem. 2lbs of lead on a 23lb model? not a big deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Marsh Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 Well, my 'overpowered' Seafire floats on down, even at min engine power, full flaps it just floats, doesn't tip stall and settles for a three-pointer landings (not sure how strong the u/c mounts are...) Also, it uses a retract servo, but using one main battery. A Sub-C cell is a must. On the other hand, my YT Spit has the same engine in the front, a huge sub c battery, loads of lead weight and is still a little tail heavy, but that's made of fiberglass, not balsa, as on the Escale, and although the YT Spit flies well, does need a good .90 to 1.20, a .90 would needs loads of lead (about 1kg) just to get it to balance. Depends on the model, though, and I do like power... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon H Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 For a yt spit I would use at least a 120 and my choice would be a Laser 150 or 155 as they usually end up about 14lbs. I know the prototype flew on a 90 but...70 inch 14lb model on a 90? no thanks! As for the seafire, the addition of flaps makes a difference as there is a nice chunk of extra drag. Im guessing you also have a decent low idle set up as well. I also agree that larger models need the sub c batteries to get enough amps, although personally I use a second battery on mechanical retracts. And I like plenty of urge in my models. My YT La7 has a Laser 300v wedged in the nose and it is overpowered in a straight line but I use it in the vertical. my comments about overpowering things are in truth less related to this model as although it claims to be 60 size its not really as its just that bit bigger. While overpowered with a 120 it wont be brutal, not like putting a 120 is the topflite spitfire. I think most would agree that a 120 in that model is lunacy and a decent 80 would be more than enough. I also had to convince a chap the other day that a Laser 240v was madness for a topflite 60 inch sea fury! The 240 more or less matches a Zenoah 38 for crying out loud! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon H Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Masher, retracts are en route and should be with you tomorrow. They still have air in so you should be able to try them straight out of the box Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Masher Posted January 14, 2015 Author Share Posted January 14, 2015 Thank you Jon, they have just arrived and are snapping up & down like they should. I am now feeling a bit more positive about getting this project finished. I'm very grateful for all the help and have hopefully learnt enough to sort my own U/C out in future! I've pm'd you Edited By Masher on 14/01/2015 12:26:08 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon H Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 No worries happy to help. I felt a bit guilty as I recommended them and it all went wrong! Im not put off by the issue with the O ring. Im going to get two sets as a friend and I plan to build two identical hurricanes and these are spot on. Even the Oleo length is right on the money Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Masher Posted January 14, 2015 Author Share Posted January 14, 2015 No I'm not put off either. I'll know more next time and we have to remember we are dealing with low cost mass produced stuff here. At least they provide spares with the kit and it now works well. What Hurricanes are you building? Once I've flown this ARTF, I'm going to build the Tony Nijhuis 72" Spitfire - It may take a while! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon H Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 They are the warbirds replica hurricanes. I had one many moons ago as a teenager and it taught me a lot about what to do and not to do with warbirds. 3 years ago a chap and his then 13 yr old son joined our club and I taught them both to fly. Asking 'the boy' what he wanted to fly (so as to guide his training) he said 'SE5a, Hurricane and Dc3'. So I thought 'good lad, some nice scale stuff!' an we cracked on. To cut a long story short, he got his A cert, and a hobbyking artf SE5a and flew it very well on my old os52 that I sold him cheap. I then built my Nieuport so we could fly together but his 5a crashed soon after with blackwire on the battery. Before it bit the dust he was asking about the hurricane and I suggested the warbirds model as its cheap, flew well and with some tweaks could look very scale. Also its dead easy to build and given my previous experience with the model I could make some changes to get the weight down and improve the model. As luck would have it, we were able to pick up TWO kits at separate times for the grand total of 80 quid. Bit of a bargain say I. His model is half built and construction has sort of halted as (being 16 now) he has not only discovered girls but has also gotten distracted with converting a flair pup into a 1 1/2 strutter....although this too has ground to a halt following the demise of his much loved SE5a and subsequent confidence hit as it was his first crash. So..anyway, when he gets back on the horse and I get some hangar space we will have two hurricanes, both with Laser 80's up front (I am loaning him one of mine) and enough tweaks to make the models more scale and more friendly. We then plan to gang up on his dad's future project of a Bf109. It should be good for a laugh! As for the TN 72'' spit I have heard that they often end up a bit porky so try and keep it as light as you can, especially at the back end. Also given their porky nature a 120 can often leave them wanting so a decent 150 (hint ) would be a better choice. I am told the fly well though so it should be a good'un Edited By Jon Harper on 14/01/2015 15:54:29 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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