Dave Hopkin Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 Poly C - £10.20 for 500ml = £22.40 Litre Eze Kote - £15.00 for 500ml = £30 Litre Ronseal Diamond Hard Floor Varnish - £39.99 for 2.5 Litre = £16.00 Litre The question is: Is there a difference? Ronseal is water based, doesnt attack foam, bonds glass down and fills the weave, looks the same, no odour in particular Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Wood Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 Hi Dave, I do use Poly-C regularly & one thing I wouldn't call it is 'Diamond Hard'. It's great for our purposes though, easy to use, tough, smells ok & sands easily to a smooth flat finish. Eze Kote & Ronseal probably ok as well but haven't felt the need to try 'em. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Hopkin Posted February 4, 2015 Author Share Posted February 4, 2015 Hi Richard, I have used Poly-C and Eze Kote - and have done a couple of scrap pieces of Ronseal "Diamond Hard" I actually cant see a difference between them - I am wondering if Poly-C and Eze Kote are actually the same chemical composition and just far more expensive because its packaged for modelling.... But if they are just a repackaged product, then there is a significant cost saving to be made Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wright Stuff Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 I agree that the key question is whether it can be sanded smooth. Have you tested this, Dave? If the Ronseal is sandable, then it's evidently significantly less hard than diamond. Either that, or you have some very special sandpaper! Probably being flippant now, but is this not a breach of the Trades Description Act? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Hopkin Posted February 4, 2015 Author Share Posted February 4, 2015 Can I point out that "Diamond Hard" is Ronseals trade name..... and yes it does sand just the same as Poly-C/Eze Kote.... and no sadly I have no magic sandpaper! For the life of me I cant find any difference between them apart from the price Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Wood Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 I wouldn't like to speculate on their different compositions but it's a good tip & certainly worth a try if it sands & adheres as well. Edited By Richard Wood on 04/02/2015 09:23:49 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanN Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 Posted by Dave Hopkin on 03/02/2015 23:51:03: Poly C - £10.20 for 500ml = £22.40 Litre Eze Kote - £15.00 for 500ml = £30 Litre Ronseal Diamond Hard Floor Varnish - £39.99 for 2.5 Litre = £16.00 Litre The question is: Is there a difference? Ronseal is water based, doesnt attack foam, bonds glass down and fills the weave, looks the same, no odour in particular Dave, you may find the post from Grahamd on page 3 of this thread interesting **LINK** Is the Poly C currently being sold still the same stuff - i.e. rebottled Ronseal XL - or is it specially formulated - does anyone know? Edited By IanN on 04/02/2015 09:45:46 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 Are any of them fuel proof against diesel or glo ? getting close to finishing a cloud cruiser powered by a 4 stroke and need to decide how to cover thanks john Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Hopkin Posted February 4, 2015 Author Share Posted February 4, 2015 Fuel Proof..... No Idea sorry, I'm all electric! Composition of them.... I have googled and failed misterably to find any technical specs for any of them, I suspect that there will be a very limited number of manufacturing plants making the stuff and its probably distributed within the trade as an undiluted polymer - as probably 90% ish of the stuff is water it would make no sense to transport diluted stuff round - so that leaves the final step before the retail outlet being for the distributor to dilute to taste..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solly Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 I remember reading about a product called Rustins Plastic Floor Coating. This is a two-part mix and was highly recommended for modelling use as it is completely fuel proof, although I've never tried it myself. Anyone used it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Hopkin Posted February 4, 2015 Author Share Posted February 4, 2015 Posted by Solly on 04/02/2015 09:54:45: I remember reading about a product called Rustins Plastic Floor Coating. This is a two-part mix and was highly recommended for modelling use as it is completely fuel proof, although I've never tried it myself. Anyone used it? And here it is **LINK** But reading the health and safey pdf its a solvent based varnish wich isnt going anywhere near my Depron! Might be perfectly good for all wood though Edited By Dave Hopkin on 04/02/2015 10:30:34 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Wood Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 Posted by John Laird on 04/02/2015 09:38:17: Are any of them fuel proof against diesel or glo ? getting close to finishing a cloud cruiser powered by a 4 stroke and need to decide how to cover thanks john Hi John, From the Poly-C site: Q - Can I use Poly-C as a fuel proofer around the tank bay and engine area. A - Yes Poly-C is glow fuel, Diesel and petrol proof. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatscoleymo Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 My experience with poly c has shown it is not fuel proof with 10% nitro glow fuel, either the raw fuel or exhaust residue. It lifts and leaves a sticky goo, difficult to remove. Fats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Meade Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 Best way to find composition is to try and find the COSHH / MSDS sheet for them. Here is the one for Ronseal (opens PDF) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iqon Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 do you still need to seal balsa before use ??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Bernard Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 I echo the earlier comments regarding Poly C's fuel proofing, or lack of it. I used it on a Maule powered by an SC 52FS, and after only around an hour's running I found that the Poly C had become tacky. Being tacky it would not sand off, so having read of recommendations to use Ronseal Floor Varnish, and having a tin of the same sitting in the garage unopened, I painted the fuselage in that. It cured the tackiness, and appears to be fuelproof, but although clear in the sense of being able to see through it, it is not clear in the sense of being colourless, so now my pristine white fuselage has a mucky brown cast to it. Hey ho Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Hopkin Posted February 4, 2015 Author Share Posted February 4, 2015 Posted by Colin Bernard on 04/02/2015 12:36:20: I echo the earlier comments regarding Poly C's fuel proofing, or lack of it. I used it on a Maule powered by an SC 52FS, and after only around an hour's running I found that the Poly C had become tacky. Being tacky it would not sand off, so having read of recommendations to use Ronseal Floor Varnish, and having a tin of the same sitting in the garage unopened, I painted the fuselage in that. It cured the tackiness, and appears to be fuelproof, but although clear in the sense of being able to see through it, it is not clear in the sense of being colourless, so now my pristine white fuselage has a mucky brown cast to it. Hey ho The test pieces I have done with glass tissue and Clear Ronseal have come out totally clear, was yoyr Ronseal one of the ones containing a wood stain as well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Wood Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 Posted by iqon on 04/02/2015 12:09:23: do you still need to seal balsa before use ??? It's water based so it's best not to apply it straight onto bare balsa or veneered foam wings. The veneer can ripple with a water based solution applied directly on top of it. The usual method is to seal wood with cellulose sanding sealer before using Poly-C. I've only used Poly-C on electric models so comments on fuelproofing above are interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martyn K Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 Posted by Solly on 04/02/2015 09:54:45: I remember reading about a product called Rustins Plastic Floor Coating. This is a two-part mix and was highly recommended for modelling use as it is completely fuel proof, although I've never tried it myself. Anyone used it? I have used it. It works well, is fuel proof but do NOT use the thinners to thin it down if painting onto a car rattle can paint. It will destroy your paint finish. I'm trying it again on my next F3A classic. But no thinners. Martyn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Etherton Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 Posted by Dave Hopkin on 04/02/2015 10:11:47: Posted by Solly on 04/02/2015 09:54:45: I remember reading about a product called Rustins Plastic Floor Coating. This is a two-part mix and was highly recommended for modelling use as it is completely fuel proof, although I've never tried it myself. Anyone used it? And here it is **LINK** But reading the health and safey pdf its a solvent based varnish wich isnt going anywhere near my Depron! Might be perfectly good for all wood though Yes, used to use it over humbrol enamel on control line models. Totally fuel proof. However not as thin as Furniglass hardset(tufcote) which was thin as water, flowed on with a brush, dried like it had been sprayed and was glass clear. Painted some stair handrails with the said Tufcote and they are still looking good 10 years on. Discontinued due to elf and safety I believe. If I have to paint a model these days I get a two pack paint mixed up locally and put into an aerosol. Must use a mask and spray within 24 hrs but can keep for a year or more in the freezer( bottom drawer at the back where SHMBO won't see it. )Dark colours can change shade slightly over time. Robin Edited By Dave Hopkin on 04/02/2015 10:30:34 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erfolg Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 I am still using Ronseal Diamond Hard and I am still satisfied with the finish. The down side it is expensive. I did find that it could be purchased at a lower cost than at B&Q, at a local Garden centre. It would appear that the cost does vary, not sure by how much. Although at present @ Screwfix it costs £28 for 2.5l, £16 at Wickes for 750ml. I have used Wickes version of the same sort of stuff costs £10 for 750ml. On reflection, i could not tell you which models used Diamond Hard or the Wickes product, as they look the same. I can however tell which used the original "Contractor Grade" water based varnish (given to me as a remnant by a flooring contractor). As it is as hard as nails. I am not sure that if I could remember who made it, that I would want to use it on a model again. That is because I want a tough finish, as the substrate is generally glass cloth over balsa or ply. Neither of which are anywhere as stiff as a floor. Really hard varnishes, are probably brittle, and would crack if any substantial flexing were to occur. When I next need to buy some water based varnish, I will be looking carefully at the cost, as I am far from convinced there are any substantial differences in performance. As an aside I am still using "Z" Epoxy Laminating resin, as it takes less work to get a really good finish. Water based Varnish needs more than one or two coats from my experience to obtain a really good finish. In my case I am often satisfied with a finish that is OK, rather than a cabinet makers finish. Often because I am not sure how long many of my models may survive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iqon Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 Just as an example of coverage size - would 1 bottle (12oz) of `Z` poxy resin cover a wot 4 - I am planning to do a 2m plane, but not if i am going to need 6 bottles.....from what i have read poly c is easy to apply but would need about 6 coates...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Harris - Moderator Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 Done right it would probably cover a squadron! A tiny pool or resin will spread an awful long way if squegeed with a credit card. Although you do need many coats of water based resin, it goes on so easily with minimal mess and dries quickly so when compared with the time and effort to apply and flat epoxy, I believe it's easier overall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erfolg Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 My reply is a lot more vague than Martin. In my case i always cover in glass cloth, would you be doing this? Assuming you are, alot depends on the wight of the cloth. Again in my case, it is finer than a fine silk hanky. Again my technique is different to Martins. I am not claiming it is better, just it is different. There is no squeegee involved or scraping. I just paint on the minimum amount, just to apparently wet it. When the varnish dries, it is clearly light on varnish. I then apply sparing coats, to get to the finish required. Again a confession, these days i do not cut back, other than to remove obvious high spots, before varnishing. I do not know if others do the same, I know longer cut the cloth with a scalpel. I leave it hanging loose. When dry, i then use a sanding block at an angle to abrade away the surplus, just one or two strokes normally does it. I must emphasis, I no longer seek concurs finish, just smooth and as it were flat. I know that many other modellers are horrified at not trying to obtain a brilliant finish. I accept my models live a tough live with an pretty incompetent flyer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Harris - Moderator Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 An interesting point that I picked up recently is that using the lightest cloth may not necessarily give the lightest finish as it may have a more open weave and therefore end up with a higher amount of epoxy than the next weight up. The credit card method also requires a second application to fill the weave but results in the lightest possible epoxy application. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.