A question for beginners

[Captain Slow]

I've been flying since the end of last year.

Having no experience and listening to the guy in the model shop i initially insisted on going down the self taught route with a leccy high wing with airleron pusher type. An air tech winged dragon i think it was (red).

Needless to say that ended in disaster.

I decided that this would be an expensive approach and ended up rocking up at a local flying field and getting chatting to a couple of chaps there. One phone call later and I was a member of the club, insured and ready to get tuition.

I started off with a tutor 40 with my instructor on the buddy box. I was very nervous and like many newbies landing in one piece and going back to the pits for a cuppa was a great relief. In a sunday mornings flying I'd get 2-3 flights in.

It wasn't long before I was taking off and doing low passes getting ready for learning to land.

To help combat my nerves (and because the tutor was actually borrowed off the wife), i switched over to a prangster. This improved my flying in leaps and bounds because I wasn't so nervous (imagine the grief I'd get for stacking the wifes plane....). I no longer cared as much if the plane bit the dust.

I can't remember when I went solo for the first time but it wasn't too long after getting tuition - maybe a month or two.

I then stayed with the prangster for another month or two and bought a cheapie black horse super air. that lasted a couple of months until I wrote it off pushing the boundries. I now have a travel air (which has an easier to repair undercarriage - essential for grass strips!)

I still class myself as a noob with a lot to learn and try to learn something new and push my boundries every week.

My clubmates are always there supporting, giving guidance, feedback and suggesting the next step or move I should try.

Here are my key points:

A great instructor in a club is the best way to learn - mine was constantly encouraging me to try something new and fly in various different conditions. I've flown in windy weather (up to 20mph est) in various directions across the strip, rain and snow. There's a hardcore of members at my club that are not easily put off by bad weather.

Learning to fly in non-ideal weather conditions is a GOOD thing 

Learn to beat the neerves. Relax, accept that at some point you will crash. Don't fly anything too expensive (time or money wise) and you won't cry to hard when it's in a bin bag

Practice. Sims are ok but no substitute for the real thing..Get out there and get flying!

and finally - ENJOY!!

In my hanger at present I have:

Prangster 3D and the normal version

BH Travel Air 

BH Chipmunk

Acrowot

On the bench I have a half built Tony Nuihus Tiffie

hth

[Tim Mackey]

Well said Captain'...and you nearly spelled / spelt ( irony )  Tony's name right !

[Captain Slow]

fiddlesticks lol

Still - he should be used to it by now

[A Collins]

Well I'm definitely a beginner with only two lessons under my belt to date.  I have two planes, the first is an ongoing project which is testing my modelling skills, a Great Planes Piper Cub 40, and it keeps me out of trouble in the evenings. 

My other plane that I'm learning to fly with is the new version of the Irvine Tutor 40.  A word of caution should anyone be thinking of getting one of these planes.  The instructions have not kept pace with updates to the model and so there are a couple errors.  The instructions describe two engine moutning brackets but only one is supplied.  Also, the description of the fuel tank installation makes no sense at all, I phoned Ripmax and was told to ignore the book on that point.  Other than that, this was a very simple build and a great plane to fly.  I fitted a brand new OS 46 AX and it is a beauty, started first time and purrs like a kitten.

I learned a valuable lesson last saturday, see my pics in the Gallery, the folder is titled 'Safety'.  An old hand got a bit careless and the result was a trip to hospital in the Hampshire & Isle of Wight Air Ambulance.

They really do mean it when they say 'keep your hands away from the prop'...listen to your instructors.

[David Ashby - Moderator]

I saw the photos, not nice to see - hope he's ok Alan?

[A Collins]

Hello David.  He is now out of hospital and on the mend, he says he should of known better at his age.  I hope to see him tomorrow evening.

[Richard Lewis]

     Hi there, Just put a post on one of the other forum threads. just getting back into it after a 3 year break. Glad to say that I still had it. Was a bit worried but having the club instructor assisting me helped immensely. Must admit that I did catch on very quickly when I fist started to learn flying about 5 years ago. I would say that I did have a couple of advantages that have helped a great deal. When I was younger I used to play on the Microsoft Flight Sim games a lot and understand the rough principles of flight and how the control surfaces work. I am also a plant operator by trade and operate various earth moving vehicles, some of which include the use of control leavers. For example an excavator has two control levers that have to be used gently and not yanked around so i know to use TX controls gently.

  I would definately say that the best thing for anyone who is thinking of taking up flying would be to find a local flying club and have a chat. These park flyers that you can buy nowadays have come on leaps and bounds over the past couple of years but don't assume that makes you an expert. You still need to find a club. Also some of these park flyers ar working on 35mhz so there is still scope for shooting someone down. I have just bought a park flyer on 35mhz at 75 which i know our club uses so I will only fly it at the club then i know there wont be a problems.

 Thats all I have really. CHEERS 

[Alex Hasell]

Right im absolutely hacked off with this thats TWICE i have tried to add comments for this stupid thing to say its to long where does it go surley it sould let you edit what you have written so it can go on instead of deleting as what in my case has been 3 hours total of thinking and typing what i thought would be usefull content for it to be totally wasted im now going to find something USEFULL to do

[Tim Mackey]

I have similar frustrations with character limitations Alex - which is why I often have to post 2 or 3 seperate posts on one thread to say what I need. However, after the "too long" warning appears, I still have all the text on screen, and edit it until it accepts.

I have, in the past, lost entire articles in the way you describe and understand entirely how annoyed you must be!

[Alex Hasell]

I have calmed down now  i didnt even know that you do get a warnig as my head was dwn typing then i just hit the submit button where does this warning appear Timbo so i can look for it i cant take losing more post cheers

[Tim Mackey]

Hi Alex....when you hit the "submit message" button the warning appears on screen.

[Jon]

When I was 11 years old (55 years ago!) my mate and I had real great fun as we made and flew many balsa & dope, free flight, no R/C type gliders at Bromley Gardens SE London.  We parked in many a tree and or the craft would just fly off out side the public park never to be seen again.  Can’t say I can ever remember coming home with a plane let a known one in flying order.

  Many years later I’ve stated again, but now there are rules and even laws plus warning messages on batteries and motors that would have scared the pants off us all those years ago. I’m not saying we should ignore them but I can’t help feeling sorry for the 11 year olds of today. They’ll miss out  on the fun of not being able to freely climb trees in the local park to get their prize plane back, we even got up on the local Odeon Cinema roof one time…and retrieved it too! 

Now back to the current future!.. Without this forum I am sure I’d still be climbing trees…. Its guided me on so many things so far that I have improved almost daily. You guys today may not have the fun of climbing park trees but you sure will get in many more flying hours than we did.  I started off this time with a Phoenix Simulator which is really fantastic and so very real too, when the plane lands in a tree I get all excited! But seriously, I have been able to practice & practice to the point that I just knew I could do it for real, then I did.

I now have a plane on my simulator that I have been able to adjust to the point where it just feels and behaves as my trainer in all sorts of weather.

  After a lesson at the club field I can repeat it many more times over on the sim…  I have been learning on a Seagull E Pioneer see " Anybody built the Seagull E-Pioneer page 118 in Mar 2008 RCM&E Mag " 

 Finding a club, getting guidance, choosing a plane, finding an instructor, knowing where to shop, finding all the money needed, understanding R/C electrickery, building techniques, battery charging, and so many other concerns that a newbie like me has had. Have all been laid to rest by the relentless help and assistance offered and given by a gallant few on this forum who real must spend more hours answering thousands of newbie question than it would take me to climb every ruddy tree in Bromley Gardens.  Having this forum at the back of me has given me a confidence and a way forward which I just can’t find the words to express… 

Thank you

[David Ashby - Moderator]

Good stuff John, onwards and upwards.

[Ian Lawson]

Since aeromodelling requires quite a broad skill base I think it fair to say that frustration becomes a way of life, when learning. Pre requisites of having transport, time and some spare cash together with an interest in trying to fly a model plane in a climate such as ours probably accounts for the relatively low volume of fliers in the UK.

Trying to build a model plane for the first time, often in isolation, when there are more questions than answers, seems only the start.

Finding an instructor who is able to give you the amount of time, that is so essential, at the point  when you are most enthusiastic, is not easy. The alternative of "paid for" tuition in the UK seems very highly priced. 

The sport is fantastic,the club people I have met are good fun, helpful and co-operative. I now have two Ready 2s built ,a Reflex flight sim that nearly works - problems with the scenery - and look forward to tuition from my new trainer, if the wind ever stops blowing at gale force.

[Jack Bagley]

Hi David,

                 Thias is an interesting quest you have embarked upon, a beginners series eh!

 Well not wanting to teach Gran the egg sucking business, I would just sit and think of a list of things to prioritise first, for instance:-

1a). Do you want to just buy and fly? 1b).Do you intend to build and fly from plans and or kits?

2). Tools, list and give some written instructions.

3). How to go about selecting materials if you wish to be a "builder of models".

4). "How to" series on this aspect, say a two article job.

5). What type of models you should start with, and the reasons why.

6). How to go about selecting an ARTF for the purpose.

7). How to construct these models and point out their material shortcomings.

8). Selecting engines , how to operate them and care for them.

9). How to selecect radio gear, future proofing, and how they operate.

10). Pre flight checks, how to balance, where to get instruction etc.

11). Gaining certificates.

12). Grand series summary.

These are not necessarily in the correct order, but it needs a sustained effort over a 12 month issue period. No other magazine to my knowledge has attempted this, It would be interesting to hear your comments. Best wishes, Jack.

[David Ashby - Moderator]

Thanks Jack, that's very useful. We've run beginners series before in various aspects but it's probably time for a new one we think? 

I'd probably not do too much on certificates and flying as Andy Ellison has done that amply over the last year or so with his A and B cert articles but some good suggestions there.

Trouble with a long series is would it slow down or stall newcommers? I was hoping to run perhaps 5 parts but the more I study the more I keep wondering, like you, if I need perhaps double that!   

[Michael Crawford]

David, your questions to newcomers were;

"what they find is the hardest part of the hobby? What aspect/s they find the most challenging?"

Similar to Ian's opening comments above I have a slightly different slant on the challenges of model flying. Right now the hardest part of the hobby is creating the time to do it. For a beginner, and I'm sure many proficient flyers, I find an opportunity only presents itself when each of these elements combine.

1. Low wind
2. Generally fair conditions
3. No previous arrangements
4. No adhoc demands from the family to take advantage of the generally fair conditions
5. No high priority maintenance tasks ( house, cars etc )
6, Batteries are recently fully charged and safe to use ( requires a constant charging vigil or foresight of when all the other conditions may be true )
7. A minimum time period of 4 hours ( IC engine ) where all these are true
8. Daylight
9. Any other restrictions from your chosen flying site ( availability, flying time window )

I have been a member of a club for 1 1/2 years now and have been to the field 4 or 5 times. Admittedly some of this time was spent building the plane. Maybe, just for a different angle, you could look at what weather conditions to fly in and useful resources for prediction, ways in which people manage their time and commitments, tips for model preparation and transport with the emphasis on speed.

Once you're at the field I think the key skill, the hardest to get right consistently, is orientation. I'm sure if we used a view from a camera mounted on the front of the model 99% of control inputs during training would be in the correct direction. When the trainee is fixed on the ground, it's a different matter. As a relatively young pilot I am no stranger to twiddling joysticks and have always pushed the stick down to look up.

After floating an Aerobird around in the wind ( the lack of power makes it really difficult to tell who is in charge of the model ) and crashing a Parkzone FW190 a few times I joined a club and started using a simulator. I think we all realise that a simulator is very different to flying the real thing but what it is very good at is teaching to fly with the model at different orientations to you, and the good news here is it can be practised virtually anywhere at any time.

Personally, as mentioned in a previous post, I also had problems with nerves. I am relatively nerve free now but this did serioulsy compound problems when learning to fly. This brings me on to my last point about learning to fly at a club with a tutor and teaching yourself with a park flyer model. Our flying site is significantly larger than any 'park' I managed to find. In a 'park' I found that I was forcing myself to fly within the 'boundaries' of the park. This led to more pressure, more mistakes and crashes. On the official flying site I have what feels like an infinite amount of room, less nerves, less panic, better flying. This is another good reason to join a club, or at least a point for begineers to be aware of.

Michael

[Russ]

Hi David

 Having had a years experince I'm still a beginner!!! My pointers for anyone just staring out would be:

Join a club, mine has a years waiting list. Go to their field and speak to one of the trainers/examiners as to what model etc to buy. Don't spend any money until you've done this.

Seek advice about a suitable model, I use a Tutor 40, very clear instructions etc. Radio very important if using a buddy system all the trainers at our club use Futaba.

I also purchased a very cheap simulator which gave me plenty of stick time. I got very frustrated trying to arrange flights with my instructor due to his other commitments, so I went to Paul Heckles school for some lessons. This was great, as the tuition was excellent and you use their equipment., and you fly fly and fly all day long, well worth the money.

Finally  I found someone at my club who is an excellent instructor and is at the field 3 days a week.

One thing that is invaluable, meeting fellow flyers for their advice on equipment etc.

You will need some knowledge of how the model is built as there is going to be plenty of repairs/rebuilds needed. And lastly it is a long road starting from scratch to gaining your "A" certificate, I would say it is comparable to learning to drive. 

[Martyn Johnston]

David,

I've been reading RCM&E for over a year now, and I'm still confused by the competition acronyms. I've seen them printed dozens of times but I've still no idea at all what F3J means; or F1, F3A, etc, etc. I know you don't want to explain these terms every time you use them, but I stil have no idea what you're talking about.

The bizarre terms 'peanut' and 'pistachio' in describing models also serves only to confuse.

Good idea for an article methinks. 

[David Ashby - Moderator]

Good point Martyn - clarity is required I agree.

[Jon]

Same point I made some time back David.....  Could a list be started and added to from time to time on this site..... Then you'd only need to refer to it in the mag....

Even things like "Tail dragger" got me for quite some time... apart from as Martyn points out "F3" and so on...

Jon

[David Ashby - Moderator]

Right ho, I'm starting to write one for the site now Jon

[Jack Bagley]

Hi David,

                Thanks for your reply, I have a feeling that if the series were writen with some interesting "grabbers" each month, the readership would not wane, as a month is not too long a period in which to practice the skills/lessons taken from each previous article. I would also make the suggestion that it may be a good thing to compile the whole series as an edited "extra" at the end of the run, ie, in the same format as the magazine so it can be used on the bench separately. From what you say, well written past articles be re-published and included in the content. Best wishes to everyone, Jack

[Jon]

ok David thank you so very much...

Suggestion, could it take the form of a Q&A list and be kept in alphabetical order.... Allowing newbie's to add an acronym or slang term and then you oldies could fill in the answer's under it... 

It would need some control with say only one vetted answer per question, not a discussion! but a fixed and controlled list.

This way the work load would nto hit you all at once but in time could become a very comprhencive and helpful list for any future newbies. I'm sure it would also encorage your mag reads to read/join the forum.

jon

[Andy Harris]

David.

Started 24th May this year.

150 flights, 1 crash (not bad):

Would challenge that high wing trainers are the right approach - 3D seems so much easier and more safe, more predictable.

Would really appreciate reviews that tell us about the quality of ARTF airframes and instructions, for example I started with Precision Areobatics and thought - tricky but not bad, Done a Kyosho Spree Sports for my son - thought: nice but clearly a lower cost product.

THEN:

Started an Extra 260 for my A test and a Mini Pulse for my son, Wow, I didn't realise how good I'd had it with the first models, these last two are tricky pigs with bits that don't fit properly and whole sections of instructions missing and hardware that even a beginner can see will fail.

As a Novice I hate the creeping finish syndrome, where kits are missing odd bits that it is assumed you'l have.

Its nothing to do with cost either, with the Mini Pulse costing nearly three times the Spree Sports!

ALSO:

The trade is very important I was sold my Shock and Addiction by Ali himself (AlsHobbies), I phoned up for something else and Ali sold me the Shock - he was enthusiatic and right, the right product at the right time. He waxed lyrical about the Addiction, again great follow on 3D trainer.

However I selected the next two myself, I could sense something different in Ali's voice when I placed the order. We novices need to know that some Salespeople are top notch, and which vendors and manufacturers to trust.

Could really do with articles that help to cure common faults in bunts and rolls, like sequences of stick inputs, and stuff like landing strategies in gusty winds.

Or perhaps, how to indentify less than effective hardware or recommended beefing up of airframes (which you already do in a coded fashion, but you have to have been through the process to appreciate the code)

On balance you chaps do a cracking job and fair play to you to help us novices.

Regards

Andy