What is happening in Futaba?

[Artto Ilmanen]

Posted by Daren Graham - Cambria Funfighters on 25/01/2016 08:05:37:

Hi, Just to put my own bit in here. Model size is irrelevant except for the consequences of an accident or the amount of current drawn through the RX. Obviously if you use lots of big servos you should consider this and maybe use some sort of distribution board.

 

Hi Daren

You are correct except with the large petrol models tend to vibrate more than small electric models which may have a consequence in RX link reliability. Also petrol CDI units are a source of interference which can cause troubles.  Large models can be flown at longer distances, too.

This all being said I am by no means an expert in this matter.

In fact as a modeller I use Futaba 8FG Super which has been a reliable radio and has all the basic features I need. The only reason I am considering Frsky Taranis X9E or Horus (in case the latter will be available as a tray version) is I want a tray type transmitter and telemetry sensors and receivers at reasonably price level. As Horus is not yet available I am still stuck with Futaba and I would not like to invest in expensive 120+ pound Futaba receivers as an intermediate solution in anyways.

 

 

 

Edited By Artto Ilmanen on 25/01/2016 10:48:06

[MattyB]

Posted by Artto Ilmanen on 25/01/2016 10:45:24:

Posted by Daren Graham - Cambria Funfighters on 25/01/2016 08:05:37:

Hi, Just to put my own bit in here. Model size is irrelevant except for the consequences of an accident or the amount of current drawn through the RX. Obviously if you use lots of big servos you should consider this and maybe use some sort of distribution board.

Hi Daren

You are correct except with the large petrol models tend to vibrate more than small electric models which may have a consequence in RX link reliability. Also petrol CDI units are a source of interference which can cause troubles. Large models can be flown at longer distances, too.

You are confusing different things here - the factors you list are nothing to do with whether an RX is considered full range or not. That is purely to do with it's RF performance and range as tested by the manufacturer.

An RX failing due to vibration will occur if it has poor physical design or QC, or much more likely is poorly installed without any vibration absorption or optimised aerial positioning. None of those factors have anything to do intrinsic RF performance. FrSky's RX physicals and QC are now well proven, so we know this is not something to worry about.

Similarly whilst I have heard stories of ignition units causing RF issues, these are few and far between nowadays as ignition unit are better shielded. If you do see an issue this can be addressed by changing the install - move it further away from the unit and use a separate power supply to the RX and you are 99.99% certain to eliminate the problem. Again though, a full range RX is just as likely (or unlikely) to be affected by this as a short range park-fly one, and the resolution is the same either way.

Finally remember that large petrol models are actually flown at comparatively short distances compared to thermal gliders and FPVers in countries where beyond LOS FPV is allowed. FrSky RXs have been extensively tested in both those use cases for many years now without issues, so LOS flying with a correctly installed and powered full range RX in ANY model is going to be fine, irrelevant of size or powerplant.

Edited By MattyB on 25/01/2016 11:32:03

[Artto Ilmanen]

Posted by MattyB on 25/01/2016 11:28:00:

Posted by Artto Ilmanen on 25/01/2016 10:45:24:

Posted by Daren Graham - Cambria Funfighters on 25/01/2016 08:05:37:

Hi, Just to put my own bit in here. Model size is irrelevant except for the consequences of an accident or the amount of current drawn through the RX. Obviously if you use lots of big servos you should consider this and maybe use some sort of distribution board.

Hi Daren

You are correct except with the large petrol models tend to vibrate more than small electric models which may have a consequence in RX link reliability. Also petrol CDI units are a source of interference which can cause troubles. Large models can be flown at longer distances, too.

You are confusing different things here - the factors you list are nothing to do with whether an RX is considered full range or not. That is purely to do with it's RF performance and range as tested by the manufacturer.

An RX failing due to vibration will occur if it has poor physical design or QC, or much more likely is poorly installed without any vibration absorption or optimised aerial positioning. None of those factors have anything to do intrinsic RF performance. FrSky's RX physicals and QC are now well proven, so we know this is not something to worry about.

Similarly whilst I have heard stories of ignition units causing RF issues, these are few and far between nowadays as ignition unit are better shielded. If you do see an issue this can be addressed by changing the install - move it further away from the unit and use a separate power supply to the RX and you are 99.99% certain to eliminate the problem. Again though, a full range RX is just as likely (or unlikely) to be affected by this as a short range park-fly one, and the resolution is the same either way.

Finally remember that large petrol models are actually flown at comparatively short distances compared to thermal gliders and FPVers in countries where beyond LOS FPV is allowed. FrSky RXs have been extensively tested in both those use cases for many years now without issues, so LOS flying with a correctly installed and powered full range RX in ANY model is going to be fine, irrelevant of size or powerplant.

Edited By MattyB on 25/01/2016 11:32:03

Matty,

I may have confused things. However, what I tried to say is some installations may cause more challenges for the RX to produce a solid link between the TX and RX.

And longer the distance between the two the more there is a possibility of loosing that link.

But eventually what counts and what I am interested is wether the Frsky full range FASST receivers can be used in similar applications as their genuine counterparts. I have understood that this is the case so Frsky receivers are as good as the genuine Futaba ones, at least from the avarege user point of view.

Thank you

[MattyB]

Posted by Artto Ilmanen on 25/01/2016 11:53:03:

Matty,

I may have confused things. However, what I tried to say is some installations may cause more challenges for the RX to produce a solid link between the TX and RX.

And longer the distance between the two the more there is a possibility of loosing that link.

...and what I am telling you is that your hypothesis above is incorrect in the case of these specific failure types. If the aerials have fallen off due to vibration or the ignition unit is putting out interference that is affecting the servos you will see both of those symptoms at very short range i.e. on the ground during your pre-flight checks. If either of these failure types happen in the air it will make no difference to the outcome whether you have a parkfly or full range RX installed - you will crash.

Think of it this way - full size aircraft designers spend millions optimising the wing sections of their airliners to improve range and fuel efficiency by tiny percentages, but if an engine breaks down on the tarmac (analogous to your aerials falling off or ignition interference) then the plane won't take off on it's flight that day.

But yes, fundamentally any full range FrSky RX is suitable for any full range application, provided (as with all other makes of RC gear) you follow the recommended installation instructions.

[Daren Graham - Cambria Funfighters]

Blimey this all got a bit serious after I'd gone. My post assumed that the installation was properly done including shielding from interference etc. What I was trying to say was that if a receiver is reliable then the size of it ( and I mean full range) is irrelevant to the sizeof the model. My (albeit modest) jets all fly on a basic Futaba 6 channel RX that I use in the Funfighters and even My £1000.00 odd pounds worth of Q40 pylon machine. Which at 25,000 rpm produces plenty of vibration and probably 4x that of a DA 150 petrol motor.

[Artto Ilmanen]

Posted by MattyB on 25/01/2016 13:27:22:

Posted by Artto Ilmanen on 25/01/2016 11:53:03:

Matty,

I may have confused things. However, what I tried to say is some installations may cause more challenges for the RX to produce a solid link between the TX and RX.

And longer the distance between the two the more there is a possibility of loosing that link.

...and what I am telling you is that your hypothesis above is incorrect in the case of these specific failure types. If the aerials have fallen off due to vibration or the ignition unit is putting out interference that is affecting the servos you will see both of those symptoms at very short range i.e. on the ground during your pre-flight checks. If either of these failure types happen in the air it will make no difference to the outcome whether you have a parkfly or full range RX installed - you will crash.

Think of it this way - full size aircraft designers spend millions optimising the wing sections of their airliners to improve range and fuel efficiency by tiny percentages, but if an engine breaks down on the tarmac (analogous to your aerials falling off or ignition interference) then the plane won't take off on it's flight that day.

But yes, fundamentally any full range FrSky RX is suitable for any full range application, provided (as with all other makes of RC gear) you follow the recommended installation instructions.

So, eventually no issues

Matt, I see your point and your argumentation is valid.

have a good day,

Artto

[Artto Ilmanen]

Gentlemen,

 

There seems to be some discussion going on concerning Frsky latest firmware and the new EU regulations. Some members report having had range problems.

I just orderd a TFR6-A 7 channel FASST compatible full range receiver from Hobbyking. It's coming from the Intl warehouse. I assume I do not need to think about this potential range issue with the new EU reglulation compatible FrSky firmware as the TFR6-A 7 is a FASST receiver?

-Artto

 

 

Edited By Artto Ilmanen on 05/02/2016 08:02:04

[Frank Skilbeck]

Posted by Artto Ilmanen on 05/02/2016 08:00:13:

Gentlemen,

There seems to be some discussion going on concerning Frsky latest firmware and the new EU regulations. Some members report having had range problems.

I just orderd a TFR6-A 7 channel FASST compatible full range receiver from Hobbyking. It's coming from the Intl warehouse. I assume I do not need to think about this potential range issue with the new EU reglulation compatible FrSky firmware as the TFR6-A 7 is a FASST receiver?

-Artto

Edited By Artto Ilmanen on 05/02/2016 08:02:04

Artto - no that was specific to the Frsky's own RF firmware and their initial update to confirm to the new EU regs introduced last year, there were some issues with some glider fliers with the X series rxs, Frsky introduced a new EU firmware (using listen before transmit) which allows more utilisation of the band to overcome this late last year.

But this is completely separate from the Fasst receivers they sell, which are designed to work with Futaba's transmitter RF firmware.

[GONZO]

Artto, if you have a Futaba14SG Tx and have updated it recently then you could have a problem as the modified FASST mode from this Tx has given problems working to FASST compatible Rx from third party manufacturers. No problems if you have an older Futaba Tx(FF8,FF9,FF10) using module(TM7/8) as these use the dedicated FASST hardware/chipset.

Edited By GONZO on 05/02/2016 12:51:11

[Artto Ilmanen]

Posted by GONZO on 05/02/2016 12:49:54:

Artto, if you have a Futaba14SG Tx and have updated it recently then you could have a problem as the modified FASST mode from this Tx has given problems working to FASST compatible Rx from third party manufacturers. No problems if you have an older Futaba Tx(FF8,FF9,FF10) using module(TM7/8) as these use the dedicated FASST hardware/chipset.

Edited By GONZO on 05/02/2016 12:51:11

GONZO,

Thank you. My Tx is a 8FG Super from the year 2013. I have not updated the formware as I actually even don't know how to do it!

So is it now such that I shouldn't have any problems referring to what you eplain about the 14SG?

-Artto

[GONZO]

Should be OK as the 8FG along with a few other Tx like the T12FG using the FASST TM-14 module use the Futaba chipset and are not firmware updateable.