What is happening in Futaba?

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[The Wright Stuff]

Percy, I have no specific brand loyalty either way, I was correcting a factual error.

I totally agree that others have more features. I think it largely comes down to the definition of 'entry level', doesn't it? The problem is that the "for only £30 more" argument is inductive, because for only £30 more you can have such and such a feature, but for £30 more than that, you can have a bit more as well... and so on... then before you know it you are back up to £200...

Edited By The Wright Stuff on 02/06/2015 14:53:05

[Erfolg]

I am not sure that the concept of an entry level RC set is viable in this era.

The idea seems to be a construct of the 70-80s when Ford and other manufacturers would talk of entry level vehicles, from which a customer would be induced to trade up through the product range. Now the talk is more of market sectors, with vehicles designed for the sector. Often with no concept that one sector is more important price wise to an other.

With this rather basic general trend in mind, for many entering the hobby now the entry level Tx, is the one they will be using for some time.

The basic or entry level Tx /RC set is more often than not bundled with a BNF type model. Which is often destined for the bin when the model breaks.

On that basis a basic Futaba set is pretty expensive, lacking in features compared with for example Spektrum or Tarnis (Frsky) products for a similar price. Particularly when the standard requirements of reliability and functional performance are a given for all the major brands.

[The Wright Stuff]

Posted by Erfolg on 02/06/2015 16:22:37:

I am not sure that the concept of an entry level RC set is viable in this era.

Yes, Erf, I think you've summarized it succinctly with that. An entry level set was basically (when I learned anyway) a 4, 5 or (if really extravagant) 6 channel set intended to be something to use while deciding between whether one would need 10 12 or 14 channels in the future, or jack it in completely in favour of girls and motorbikes.

That was in the day when such top end sets cost approaching £1,000, and so it simply wasn't feasible to invest in one at the start.

Now that the cost difference (£ per channel, for want of a better metric) has closed right up, there is much less incentive. I keep getting stuck in the same absurd loop: no entry level radio available, so introduce one into the range, but then it's short of features compared to the competition, so add more features to make it competitive, but then it's not an entry level radio any more, so no entry level radio available...

[Reno Racer]

It would be an interesting survey to see how many channels we actually use as a percentage of those available of our radio sets. I would hazard a guess that most don't really use more than 6-8, but I bet lots have 12+ channel radios. If this assumption is correct, then the entry level set stands no chance anyway, even if that actually all we need.

In flying jets, EDF, petrol and normal IC, I find my Futaba T8J more than sufficient, although I do actually then use all my channels.

Edited By Reno Racer on 03/06/2015 14:53:38

[Reno Racer]

Probably also add that the term entry level is not that useful either. The term suggests a beginners set, so most want to quickly make the psychological step forward onto a 'better' set, even if they don't need it, due to the psychological conditioning of terms like that.

Perhaps Futaba, need to take a long hard look at where their market is, and not try to pander to all. Perhaps, on the contrary, the Beauty of an entry level set, is manufacturers known you will want to move on and they hope they have you locked to their brand, through loyalty or economics of changing receivers ( if on a different protocol)

[Erfolg]

If we consider the T8J as a base Tx, when the price of the item is considered with a Tarnis or a Spektrum DX6i there appears to be a significant price premium from say £280 against £120 Tarnis or £80 for not so basic DX6i. The exact specific prices are not really that relevant, rather than being indicative.

It is this price differential that typifies the whole viability and strategy of Futaba.

[Reno Racer]

I'm not sure I'd consider the T8j a beginner set, maybe the T6j, but I do agree with your point at £140 the new Taranis can't really be compared, it's streets ahead.

[Andrew767]

Where have Futaba gone wrong?

I bought into 2.4 ghz with a 6ex,then when the T7CAP was released i bought one of those because that is what i'd had on 35mhz. When i need a new set,where do i go?. i neither need nor want a 14SG. I have nowhere to go with Futaba,so far as a 7 or 8 channel set goes as these are all now FHSS and i fly on FASST. They enticed us into FASST and should have stuck with it. Even price is no longer an issue as Spektrum now want £44 for a 6ch Rx,so another fiver for a 7ch Futaba Rx is neither here nor there.If they were to launch a 7 or 8ch set with the screen and functionality of the dearer sets,i would stick with them as reliability has always seemed bullet proof but would want to remain on FASST. As it is everything seems up in the air and i'm keeping my options open.

Andrew

[Erfolg]

Andrew

It could be my lack of knowledge and understanding of the Spektrum range of Rxs, I saw adverts for Spektrum for approx £34 for 6 channel and some 4 channel @ approx £20. I understand that tier 2, rxs can be bought for less than a tenner from Frsky.

Being a Fasst user I have paid between £55 -70 for the very basic R617 models.

In recent times I have used mostly Frsky 6 channel models for approx £14.

Perhaps rather surprisingly the Frsky Rx has a better F/S than my Futaba, allowing all the channels to be set to a F/S condition, not just the throttle channel.

Yet for me it is the facilities such as real time voltage feed back, that takes electric flight into a safer dimension. Some disagree with me, in that I find that the duration of electric models is quite short, particularly at full throttle. With this in mind, for me it is a step change in safe flying, putting certainty in place, rather than a cautious judgement to how long I could safely fly..

Again, contrary to my perceived initial reaction, a timer or other verbal communication from the Tx is far better than monitoring a screen, which necessitates my taking my gaze from the model to the screen and then hopefully back to the model.

There is so much available as standard from Futaba competitors, now, that Futaba are at the back of the current pack. I am convinced that improvement is necessary in many areas of the range and pricing points, if the brand is to survive beyond a niche, or more probably, that Futaba decide the market is no longer worth the effort.

[Andrew767]

Erf

I agree with much of what you say,which is why i suggested that a basic model i.e 6,7 or 8channel should have the facilities of the 14SG but less channels and a lower price but their stratagy appears to be to switch us all to FHSS.The pricing i used was based on current DSMX Rx and the price of 617 Rx at MSL. In a year or two i will need to renew my Tx and i find myself at a crossroads. I could switch to FHSS with Futaba or i could decide that Spektrum's problems ( and lets not pretend they didn't exist) are behind them and that each new generation will improve even if the cost gap between the two brands is narrowing. As i said i will keep an open mind. Futaba should remember though, that the first step in growth is to retain their existing customers as a foundation and unless they do something pretty quick,that will sink into the mud.

Andrew

Edited By Andrew767 on 03/06/2015 23:03:50

[Geo.]

Totally agree with everyone on the cost of Futaba FASST receivers. A couple of years ago i upgraded my 9C from 35mhz to a 2.4 module but have never flown with a Futaba RX. All my RX's are Orange and have worked faultless for a fraction of the cost. As with any product, price point is a big thing, and if someone supplies an equally good product for a fraction of the cost, the big name guy will be left behind in sales revenue

[MattyB]

Posted by Geo. on 14/07/2015 15:30:11:

Totally agree with everyone on the cost of Futaba FASST receivers. A couple of years ago i upgraded my 9C from 35mhz to a 2.4 module but have never flown with a Futaba RX. All my RX's are Orange and have worked faultless for a fraction of the cost. As with any product, price point is a big thing, and if someone supplies an equally good product for a fraction of the cost, the big name guy will be left behind in sales revenue

Yep, so true. Consumers are wiser now too - they know that in the digital age the cost of a 16Ch RX costs no more to make than a 6Ch, because the only difference between them is in the software and (maybe) in the number of pins.

All these things count against the Futabas of this world who rely on starting people on simple gear and getting them to steadily trade up over time. Why would I do that when I can have top end mixing and functionality and 16Ch off the bat for the same or less than their entry level set? Not an easy problem for them to solve, especially given they had already lost market share to Spektrum before the low cost competition upped their game.

Edited By MattyB on 14/07/2015 17:03:53

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator]

You have to have the product and at the right price first Percy. In my view Futaba has neither at the moment. It is being left standing on spec and price. You can't successfully market out-of-date gear at premium prices! Not to this market anyway - its far too cany.

BEB

[ted hughes]

KLMS are selling a Futaba 6J combo for £125.To my mind that is the superior set and a great bargain.

[Frank Skilbeck]

Posted by ted hughes on 15/07/2015 07:50:52:

KLMS are selling a Futaba 6J combo for £125.To my mind that is the superior set and a great bargain.

The Hitec Optic 6 (£110) and Graupner 12MZ (£117) which has telemetry, could claim to be superior.

[Dave Bran]

And as to what the transfer of agent from Robbe to Ripmax will do..........................

[kevin b]

Ripmax. Aren't they the people who imported MDS engines ?

[Frank Skilbeck]

Posted by Dave Bran on 15/07/2015 08:43:46:

And as to what the transfer of agent from Robbe to Ripmax will do..........................

Ripmax have always been the UK distributor for Futaba, they have just taken on the European distribution as well following the demise of Robbe.

[Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator]

Posted by ted hughes on 15/07/2015 07:50:52:

KLMS are selling a Futaba 6J combo for £125.To my mind that is the superior set and a great bargain.

Sorry Ted but I just don't see how that can be the case! For the same money you can have a DX6 combo with a far higher spec. Now I am NOT a Spektrum user so this is not self interest but the facts speak for themselves:

Spektrum - 250 internal model memories (Futaba - 15 model memories)

Spektrum - wireless trainer function (Futaba's - still just on buddy lead)

Spektrum - 5 programmable mixes (Futaba - only 2 programmable mixes)

Spektrum - 7 point pitch and throttle curves (Futaba - only 5 point curves)

Spektrum - telemetry enabled (Futaba - no telemetry)

Spektrum - fully compatible programming right to the top of the range so files can be swopped (Futaba - struggling to have fully compatible radio protocols let alone programming!)

I could list more,...for example the Spektrum has much more in the way of pre-programmed configurations - especially for gliders. As I say I carry no torch for Spectrum but this simply bears out what I say - why would anyone buy the Futaba 6J which has an inferior specification?

Now - if you had the measly sum of just £20 more you could really blow the Futaba 6J out of the water! How about 32 channels, fully telemetry, the most powerful programming imaginable etc. etc. - A Taranis!

No I'm sorry, I was a loyal Futaba user for many years, but the fact is that today they are woefully overpriced and under spec'ed. I've said it before, Futaba are not long destined to remain in this business unless they do something very dramatic very soon.

BEB

[Dave Bran]

BEB could not agree more, and I have a selection of Futaba 27MHz, 35MHz, 2x6EX 2.4 and a 10CG with full 48 model CAMPAC.

BUT................I also have two DX6i (one DSMX capable), and a DX7 for indoor.

DOUBLE BUT................ I also have a Taranis (with a FASST module)....and the genie is very actively and successfully out of the bottle and is not going back!!

I shall not be buying any more FRSky FASST Rx's, but the large number in use will live on.

Futaba have ALWAYS been too conservative, and as the corporation has much bigger fish to fry, I don't expect change.

Goodbye Futaba, glad to have known you.........................

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[Squitters]

My first RC system, on returning to the hobby, was the Futaba 6EX FASST, and I never lost a model due to Tx/Rx failure. Pilot error, yes, but never a radio related failure.

About two years ago, I purchased a Spektrum DX8 with AR6210 DSMX receivers and satellites. Having lost two planes in quick succession to Tx/Rx related failures (one on final approach of its maiden flight), I will no longer use Spektrum in new builds. I only keep hold of the Tx to use with my BNF models.

Now I am using a Futaba T10J FHSS based system, and all is well - so far. It's a shame, because as many of you have pointed out, the Spektrum system is very versatile. But, I just don't trust it.

[John Privett]

As I've said before, I have been a long-term Futaba user. Going back to a 27MHz M6 in the early/mid 70s, 35MHz Challenger in 1991, FF6, 7 & 8 and finally FF7 on 2.4. All worked fine and I can't blame any 'incidents' on the radio.

Last year I switched to Taranis after using FrSky FASST-compatible receivers for a couple of years with no problems. The Taranis is great - as others have already mentioned, and way ahead of the Futaba offerings whilst being much lower-priced. I too think Futaba have just lost the plot, though it gives me no pleasure to say that...