What is happening in Futaba?

[Phil Green]

Posted by gangster on 15/12/2015 16:42:18:

I don't know where the idea that Futaba had anything to do with the 2.4 technology comes from

It comes from history. They were pioneers in spread-spectrum industrial control systems.
Certification dates for Futaba spread-spectrum RF components are easily found, some predating Spektrum by many years.  Why they were late to transfer this expertise to RC equipment I dont know.

 

Edited By Phil Green on 15/12/2015 20:18:13

[Cabbage Man]

Phil,

Yes thats my recollection at the time 2.4 came on the market. Futaba had been using the technology elsewhere inc survey equipment for years and got it working very well. I recall being confused why Spectrum opted for dual receivers as opposed to a simple single one for futaba. I value that experience.

One issue I now also see is the reality of cloning. Everytime something emerges from a major manufacturer, the chinese clone it. Why invest in rc if you struggle to recover the investment? I wouldnt.

Maybe focusing on high end FHSS and above, they are effectively saying they no longer want to do business in the gutter with the cloners.

[Erfolg]

Cloning, reverse engineering or simply building on ideas is not new, and is part of the driving force behind many advances and price reductions or containment.

If the Carl Benz dog cart concepts had not been built upon, what would the world be now. This is the same with respects to almost everything you can think of.

Protection via patents has been broadened to such an extent, that pretty trivial ideas have been covered, in addition to those of substance.

I see the position that Futaba are in being very similar to semi-conductors, integrated circuit components, in identifying who thought of the idea, is extremely difficult to pin point and who developed what, and what is unique to them is questionable.

I do see that if they cannot make RC equipment pay, manufacturers will get out of the business. At the same time that should not be an excuse to provide a level of protection from very normal market and technological, that any manufacturers and retailers should see as the norm.

As has been pointed out earlier by others, Futaba's problem with FASST was very expensive Rx, compared with competitors, with little or no technological or performance advantage. You can only charge indefinitely a premium price for a product where it can be demonstrated that it is warranted. At best Futaba are just another manufacturer, where the so called clones by Frsky can be argued are better.

The fact that Futaba are loosing in the race of business, is a problem that Futaba need to recognise and deal with.

[Daren Graham - Cambria Funfighters]

Sorry but I don't see how it can be argued that the others are better. It may be that they do more or are different, but Futaba at least have the advantage of a proven track record in terms of what they do, for somewhere in the region of 5 decades. I have personally used them for 3.5 of those and my experience at least tells me that in all that time I've had not one failiure. That's across 7 of my own transmitters and countless others that I've used to train people or just flown other peoples models. It's true that anyone can have a bad luck experience but I once changed and once had another make for a different purpose and lost some models and had faults with the equipment. I think I'll stay with Futaba and be happier for it.

[Cabbage Man]

Ahem to that !

Given the way this hobby has changed over the years, Id not put money on the smaller producers surviving the long haul. At least futaba have a commercial arm to support the relatively small domestic market of RC kit.

I once bought Digifleet stuff back in the day and look where that ended up. Replace digifleet for jeti or FRSKY today.

Unless you really must have the latest tx, my thoughts are that your current mid table 8fg ,6exa , ff9 etc will run perfectly well for years using clone receivers and you wont be any less off in terms of features. Sure futaba have somewhat abandoned Fasst in new tx's , which is odd but the second hand market in tx's is bouyant.

I cant see me changing for some considerable time.

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[Daren Graham - Cambria Funfighters]

Sadly this is true, I think that it's mainly down to price and the newer influx of foamy fliers who have no experience of what were the main players in the radio game. Taranis has done exceptionally well from what I've seen and continues to grow. I have to say also that Hitec are doing much better in the UK now. I looked at one of their 9ch units and liked it a lot. Very intuitive programming and battery voltage telemetry as standard. Also built in servo slow settings on many channels which is great. I haven't had a chance to see Taranis but have heard a lot of grumblings about programming. I don't know if this is justified or just a different way of going about it.

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[Willyuk]

Here is a question then. If money were no object, which transmitter/system would you buy and why?

[John Tee]

Come into this thread late so not read all the entries. Apologies if repeating anything previously posted.

I use a 6EX on 2.4 without trouble.I have Spektrum 6i again no trouble bit my latest set is Hitec 7 channel - daft but can't think which one a the moment not the Flash but the one before - no trouble. Other posters are making much of the facilities most Tx's have these days but do I need 60 plus model memories on one TX? I'd rather spread them over several Tx's so I don't lose everything should there be a glitch of some sort. I class myself as an average modeller who has maybe 4/5 models flyable at any one time. I only need a basic + type outfit to cover my needs. There are members in my (and I suspect most) club who must have a facility on their Tx because it is the latest gizmo and will never use it. There are lots of function on my Hitec I will never use.

John

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[Erfolg]

I take the view that if you are happy with what you have, great.

Those who are not buy else where.

The problem for Futaba is that many are going else where, by a substantial margin.

I am a Futaba user, having two 6ex's, although now using a 8fg. I do not kid myself that Futaba is anything special, now. What it does is competent, so do many other manufacturers products. Do other manufacturers products do the same for less money, unfortunately it is a yes.

Would I buy another Futaba tomorrow, probably not. At the moment it would be a Tarnis or a Spektrum.

Once you loose your cutomer loyalty, it is difficult to get them back and Futaba have lost a lot of once Futaba users. It is up to Futaba, to win them and other users to their products. At present I see Futaba doing nothing positive to win customers.

[Phil Green]

Posted by Willyuk on 16/12/2015 15:34:56:

Here is a question then. If money were no object, which transmitter/system would you buy and why?

I doubt I'll buy another commercial set. Homebrewing and refurbishing antiques is so much more rewarding, and you can easily add facilities that no commercial set has.

Maybe, if money really was no object, just maybe, I might ask OS to make me a brand new Cougar.

Cheers
Phil

Edited By Phil Green on 16/12/2015 17:46:41

[ken anderson.]

i think we could all discuss the good/bad points of the different sets..and call them till we were all blue in the face ........ there will never be a definitive set...one thing i do think now is-there are too many features on all of the radio's available...most of which will never be used by the majority of club flyers..of course i started in the days of basic Futaba 4 channel set--with two rates and manual trims...... it was the bee's knees at the time..... ... i see tx's that have cost over £2k ....now.

ken anderson...ne...1.... bee's knee's dept.

[MattyB]

Posted by Willyuk on 16/12/2015 15:34:56:

Here is a question then. If money were no object, which transmitter/system would you buy and why?

FrSky Horus X12S - not out yet, but if it is as good as the spec sheet and pics we have seen so far look, it should be an excellent set that will meet all my needs for a long time to come...

More pics...

Edited By MattyB on 16/12/2015 16:54:45

[Andy Meade]

As above, will be the X12S or D for me. I love my Futaba kit, but will be moving across as soon as this one has got out of beta.

[MattyB]

Posted by ken anderson. on 16/12/2015 16:35:34:

...one thing i do think now is-there are too many features on all of the radio's available...most of which will never be used by the majority of club flyers..of course i started in the days of basic Futaba 4 channel set--with two rates and manual trims...... it was the bee's knees at the time..... ... i see tx's that have cost over £2k ....now.

...but if only the features that were needed by the "majority of club flyers" were implemented, what about those that do want or need more? Where would innovation come from?

Four years ago I had never used telemetry; now I would never install a non telemetry RX in anything above a super-lightweight. For our next project my Dad and I will have 4-5 sensors onboard which will increase operating safety significantly, with some of these sensor outputs being used as inputs to mixers and functions (i.e. engine overheat warning will call out on the TX and reduce max RPM available by 10%; switchover to secondary RX called out in the event of primary failure). This is on a set that costs ~£140, not £2k.

Does everyone want to do this kind of thing? No, of course not. And that's absolutely fine. Thing is though, we like it, enjoy it and feel it makes operating the larger, heavier models safer. Should we be prevented from doing this because the average club flier does not?

PS - Another thought for those of you who believe Futaba remain a far safer long term option than the "upstarts and cloners" ...

Many years ago a newcomer challenged the established US and UK manufacturers. Some early products had issues, and many fliers who purchased them were laughed at and told "that junk will never do the job". The newcomer? Futaba. Remind me where are Kraft and Digifleet are now?

Edited By MattyB on 16/12/2015 16:57:17

[Daren Graham - Cambria Funfighters]

Willy UK, I think the Futaba T18SZ is the one. I know you said money no object but it does all I'll ever need and is nearl £1,500 cheaper than the MZ .

John Tee, My guess is that you probably dont need 60 memories at this stage. But there are a lot that do. I've run out of memories on my T8J which surprised me at 20 models. I have tried more that one transmitter but it's a pain as you can gurantee the only two models suitable for the days conditions will be on two different Tx's. I for one need to take a lot of stuff to a show for a weekends flying and to have to remember and accomodate another Tx is one more thing to forget. I find that to save memories that the Funfighters will nearly all fly on the same setup except for the Spitfire which needs slightly smaller movements, so I use one memory for all. Generally I agree that I only use 20% of the radios capability as I learned to fly using my thumbs and just stuck with it.

[gangster]

Here is a question then. If money were no object, which transmitter/system would you buy and why?

My answer to this question is the same way as I have always bought my radio over nearly 4 decades.

I would look at them all and decide which looked/felt right and had the facilities that I wanted.

I firmly believe that no one manufacturer is any better than any other. As a result I have tended to jump from make to make, simply because I preferred someone elses offering at the time, it doesnt mean that I had been disapointed with my previous purchase and indeed have never lost or damaged a model due to TX or RX faiure or from interference.

Never mind the bells and whistles its the basic features that need to be compared. ie comparing two equally good and popular lower end clubman radios. Which is best Futaba T6j or Spektrum DX6i (not new DX6) ?

Both of equal quality and equal tackyness but I would need a clone of the two to make either of them work for me in terms of simple features like rate switches, timers, throttle cut for electric. No way could I say which would be best for someone else.

Going back again to the money no object side of things and if temptation lead me to the top of the respective ranges I have a funny feeling from what I have seen that I would be dissapointed by them all. I would want something with all the latest facilities but with the build quality of a Futaba M6 I think those days are gone. and I would just hang onto my existing Spektrum, Futaba and my early 21 century JR

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

Most of it's been said umpteen times before, buy what you're happy with , it's your money. Refreshing to note that there's no comments implying if it's cheaper, it can't be as safe.

Being in the gutter with the cloners made me smile though I don't know who has the patents on lipos, motors esc's' kits, petrol engines etc but looks to me like modellers are getting a better deal than we've had for a long time.

John....guttersnipe dept.

[Phil Green]

Form an orderly queue please gentlemen for the new JR Colt:

It has features you never new you'd need, and is feline-friendly...

...for example, what other radio offers a cat-flap?

 

Bit expensive though, you might have to sell up to pay for it....

But why, when you can do so much better yourself and at a fraction of the cost.?

Cheers
Phil

[Legal addendum:  Any resemblance to actual Heathkits, living or dead, is purely intentional]

 

 

Edited By Phil Green on 16/12/2015 18:01:17

[CARPERFECT]

Been following this thread with interest. Been a Futaba Man for nearly 30 years, But will always buy the aftermarket receivers. Used the orange while on FASST. Use FR SKy  Delta eight while on S-FHSS, and just seen in the Hobbyking international warehouse, that Orange are doing a s-fhss receiver with sbus for £12, Only just bought two frsky Delta Eights at £19 each . Looking forward to them bringing the T fhss out.

 

Edited By CARPERFECT on 16/12/2015 19:30:46

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[Cabbage Man]

Phil,

I like that , a lot.

I wish someone could retro fit the gubbins of a decent tx into a retro case. Awesome!

[Phil Green]

Posted by Electric God on 17/12/2015 13:45:53:

I wish someone could retro fit the gubbins of a decent tx into a retro case. Awesome!

What a fantastic idea, refitting retro radios with modern electronics!  
Makes you wonder why no-one thought of it before!

Cheers  
Phil

 

Edited By Phil Green on 17/12/2015 14:01:31