What is happening in Futaba?

[Erfolg]

From observation, as Matty has also noted, it does appear that part of the success of Spektrum is there arrangement with some model manufacturing and marketing companies. What these arrangements are is unknown to me. What I do see is a prolific range of models of the small bnf type using Spektrum as part of the package.

It does appear that the stability control features has helped in the creation of a market sector, that of the small stable park flyer that until recently was quite small. Again using Spektrum RC equipment.

Being early marketers of the 2.4 systems, continuing product development and innovation, in conjunction with the above two strategies has seen Spektrum become probably the market leader, world wide.

Both of these sectors of the markets are strangers to Futaba. It does seem that the Futaba sales strategy has no place in their marketing plans.

As have many others I have looked at the Futaba web site and observed that they also have an industrial arm, which is possibly the major division of the company.

What does seem to be evident, that the impetus to develop new RC products and bringing them to market is not present within the RC/electronics business. On reflection the major strength of Futaba, was that of a solid engineering design, backed by an emphasis on solid performance, quality and reliability. I am not sure they have been anything above state of the art, rather than being cutting edge (as used to describe innovators). More a me to company. For example bringing out their computer type radio sets, along with others. What appears to be the case now is that Futaba have moved to the run of the mill product with respect to the features of the whole package, at a unrealistically high purchase price.

There does seem to be some similarities with the old BMC/Leyland saga, of a company that once produced some solid products, slowly becoming complacent,. In the case of Leyland sliding into mediocrity. Will Futaba wake up? I certainly have no idea, not being privy to any aspect of the company.

[KingKade]

I was a futaba comitted user until reading all these posts!

Any one want to buy my futaba radio tx's and rx's?

[kc]

Nobody has mentioned the lack of 'ModelMatch' on Futaba budget priced systems. With so many people having lots of ARTF models this is an important missing item.

Of course Futaba has OS engines in their company now - just when electric power is really taking over!. But Futaba has lots of other products outside modelling. See Futaba website. This might explain why there is not much new in modelling items. Maybe the low cost modelling stuff is not seen as the future and with modellers ageing maybe they are right. In everything Japan goes for the long term.

[MattyB]

Quite possibly. There is also the possible tie in with DJI, makers of the infamous Phantom multi rotor; many of their variants utilise FASST, but no-one seems to be certain whether or not the RXs are OEM or reverse engineered a la the FrSky ones.

[Erfolg]

KC, I was alluding to this aspect in my general description of BNF and small stable park flyers, obviously poorly done.

I am assuming that one of my clubs is pretty typical of many UK clubs, in that there are at least 10 of the ModelMatch types. I have seen a Pitts, Gee Bee, a couple of Extras, Piper Cub, Space Walker, a B17,Mig 15, that I immediately can bring to mind. Priced it would seem in the £100 range. If you have a Spektrum Tx, how can you resist. Particularly in that the stability control allow these models to be flown in wind possibly as high as 5 mph with no issues.

I have looked at the link, it does show a business that appears as a conglomerate, where some items do not appear to be a good fit, and stand alone in their technology and product maturity. An example is the die and tool making parts. Which is similar to the UK WDS or DMS         very much dependant on the strength of the UK manufacturing market. It would no surprise me that there tube division is also a mature product, where usage is in decline.

But looking at the LED division, you would expect that the RC screens would be market leaders, transferring technology between divisions.

I suspect you could be on the right lines in KC, suspecting that Futaba now see the RC market as in decline, whilst they have their focus on more promising parts of the organisation for long term products and profits.

Edited By Erfolg on 19/05/2015 15:36:38

Edited By Erfolg on 19/05/2015 15:59:34

[Andy Meade]

I hope they don't disappear, I've always used Futaba, but in the past 5 years moved slowly across to FRSky modules in my 9C / FF9 as it was the easiest and cheapest way to get 2.4ghz with telemetry. I really fancy the FRSky Horus, but tried to see what is comparable in the Futaba range just now at a decent price-point. Maybe the T10J? Looks quite reasonable actually, but (I am guessing) perhaps not as "powerful" as an OpenTX transmitter.

[John Allen]

Dumped all my Futaba stuff, now everything is Taranis, love it. Now FrSky could come out with better gimbals and switches, and a sexier looking case, and maybe only add £50-60 quid to the price. It would look/feel as good as Futaba/JR, but still be miles cheaper.

Plus the PC software for setting up new models, and fiddling with existing ones is just fantastic.

[Erfolg]

Switches are certainly bought in items. I would expect that the gimbal assemblies will also be bought in. In the case of Frsky, I would expect the difference in buy in price to be much,much lower than £50.

On a comparison basis, how would you describe the difference with Futaba?

[kc]

When I mentioned Model Match I was really thinking of the inability to select the wrong model memory (i.e. it wont work at all if it's not the right model) Spektrum and some other systems use this idea but Futaba don't as far as I can see. As selecting the wrong model memory is ( or was ) a very common cause of crashes this is a most important feature for anyone with several models on the same TX. Are there any Futaba sets with this feature?

[gangster]

Model match is a fantastic innovation and has saved many a potential mishap. Personally I believe the servo reverse faculty whether by switch or software is the invention of the devil totally unnecessary and a potential trap. It's not just the tabs on the plugs and the throttle where Futaba differ their servos also go the opposite way to say Sanwa Jr and hitec so if you need to reverse just put in a different make. Ever since my first transmitter with servo reverse (home brew rcme ) I have always kept the sense of ele and ail the same when I got my first computer set I maintained the standard I have let things slip with 2.4. My Spektrum is fine but theoretically things could go wrong on my Futaba

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[MattyB]

Posted by Andy Meade on 19/05/2015 15:45:53:

I hope they don't disappear, I've always used Futaba, but in the past 5 years moved slowly across to FRSky modules in my 9C / FF9 as it was the easiest and cheapest way to get 2.4ghz with telemetry. I really fancy the FRSky Horus, but tried to see what is comparable in the Futaba range just now at a decent price-point. Maybe the T10J? Looks quite reasonable actually, but (I am guessing) perhaps not as "powerful" as an OpenTX transmitter.

If you go to the FrSky subforum you can see more about the Horus and X9E "Tray Taranis". Both look like they will be good sets, but as ever with FrSky take the delivery dates with a pinch of salt! They will not really meet your criteria though - X9E is likely to be ~£200-250, and the Horus at least £300-350. You will be able to fit the new plastic Hall effect gimals from the X9E into a Taranis though should you wish to.

Edited By MattyB on 20/05/2015 15:42:55

Edited By MattyB on 20/05/2015 15:52:19

[Andy Meade]

Yup, I've posted there too Matty, cheers. I'm in no rush to change radios as yet, but I do wonder what Futaba can actually do to pull this back - or JR for that matter.

My biggest problem with the T10J though is I can't actually find out about flight modes for it, and how many it supports. Might have to download a manual

[gangster]

Something deep in my memory thinks there was some connection between Futaba and Pentax cameras. Or am I imagining it

I also recall a fantastic picture in one of the mags (rcme or rm) an article on Futaba and it showed a Japanese guy on test and development . A real modeller with a big grin on his face and a bench as untidy as mine models shaving engines etc and bits of the latest futaba stuff in amongst it. Priceless

[MattyB]

Posted by Andy Meade on 20/05/2015 15:39:23:

Yup, I've posted there too Matty, cheers. I'm in no rush to change radios as yet, but I do wonder what Futaba can actually do to pull this back - or JR for that matter.

My biggest problem with the T10J though is I can't actually find out about flight modes for it, and how many it supports. Might have to download a manual

I wouldn't waste your time - the 10J is absolutely crippled in comparison to OpenTX. It only has 2 flight phases in Glider mode (5 in acro, where ironically they are generally less important!), no custom curves, no custom audio, no analogue (custom) switches (which is where all the advanced stuff is done in OpenTX), only 6 programmable mixes... It really is very very basic by comparsion. My biggest issue though is that the telemetry RXs are expensive compared to FrSky; I have got used to always having telemetry now, so the idea of going back to no RSSI and no RX battery voltage at minimum seems totally ridiculous. These features really do save models!

Edited By MattyB on 20/05/2015 15:51:29

[Andy Meade]

Ah, thanks for the link. Yes that is a bit poor for flight modes

I know what you mean about telemetry though, I wouldn't be without RSSI and Rx voltage these days - it's just far safer.

A real shame, I know Futaba are always great to hold and use, but the last time I touched a Taranis, the gimbals were frankly awful. It all rests on the Horus then!

[John Privett]

Posted by kc on 20/05/2015 11:30:46:

When I mentioned Model Match I was really thinking of the inability to select the wrong model memory (i.e. it wont work at all if it's not the right model) Spektrum and some other systems use this idea but Futaba don't as far as I can see. As selecting the wrong model memory is ( or was ) a very common cause of crashes this is a most important feature for anyone with several models on the same TX. Are there any Futaba sets with this feature?

As I understand it, Spektrum patented Modelmatch so nobody else could use it - or at least not without paying Spektrum for the privilege.

FrSky do have modelmatch on the Taranis - I don't know if they just ignored the patent or what?

[Dave Bran]

Surprised to read people still talking about FASST as if its solely Futaba that have killed it as like DSM2, FASST transmission eqpt is not now Euro saleable as a new item as its not "listen before transmit".

So, they had no choice but to cease UK sales of 6EX's and other FASST Transmission gear, and since they went FHSS some time ago they were never going to reinvest in a dead system. However, FASST was and is a brilliantly reliable system, I'll keep it till it becomes unusable, and since both my M series Tx from 1972 still work perfectly, that could be a while.

FASST ran rings round early Spektrum (remember I have numbers of both) but was expensive to make and allegedly getting worse as the chips used were said to be harder to get as other mainstream use of them died.

Frustrating though it might be, technology moves on, remember 8 track, Compact cassette, VHS, Betamax, 405 line TV, analog TV, pre DAB radio, even the humble "std" size SD card has gone through non-compatible iterations.All those changes wiped out huge amounts of hardware!

I was on FASST and DSM2 (the latter for short range indoor only, my choice).

I also have Taranis and that has a FASST module installed. This works my outdoor hangar along with a 10CG.

Meanwhile I'm increasingly moving FRSky only.

And as regards Taranis gimbals being poor, mine are superb, just as good as the hugely more expensive 10CG

[Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator]

I'm glad someelse has mentioned the Taranis gimbals. As I said above I used Futaba for ages before switching to Taranis and in my experience the Taranis gimbals are every bit as good as anything I've encountered on Futaba and better than some of them!

BEB

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

I never noticed criticism of the gimbals. The Taranis ones are as good as my JR 9x, maybe some just don't like you owning a box that's proven itself at give away prices lads.

John

[Andy Meade]

I'm no badge snob, otherwise I wouldn't be using frsky receivers and module in my FF9 . Maybe they've come along a lot, but they certainly felt more flimsy in the stick and looser around the centre - just a personal feeling of the hardware. I guess there is room for improvement, otherwise why would the Horus be using aluminium gimbals, and so many users on RCG asking if they can drop the new gimbals into their Taranii?

Edited By Andy Meade on 20/05/2015 23:10:42

[Frank Skilbeck]

Posted by Dave Bran on 20/05/2015 21:53:09:

Surprised to read people still talking about FASST as if its solely Futaba that have killed it as like DSM2, FASST transmission eqpt is not now Euro saleable as a new item as its not "listen before transmit".

Futaba have updated FASST (re 14sg) to be compliant, they have a new set coming out (18sz) which will do FASSTest (FASST with telemetry), FHSS and T-FHSS etc, they did an update for their FASST systems to work with the new EU regs, Frsky where a bit slow in updating their FASST rxs to work with the updated Futaba systems though.

[Bob Cotsford]

Posted by Andy Meade on 20/05/2015 23:09:41:

I guess there is room for improvement, otherwise why would the Horus be using aluminium gimbals, and so many users on RCG asking if they can drop the new gimbals into their Taranii?

Edited By Andy Meade on 20/05/2015 23:10:42

tighten the springs or fit stringer springs if they feel slack, personally I like the softer feel which is very close to the way my FF9 is set up! As for using the new gimbals, I think it's a way of life for some on RCG to constantly tweak and search for the latest gizmos regardless of whether or not improvement is actually needed.

[Andy Meade]

You're probably right there Bob!

[GONZO]

AFAIK FASSTest is not quite the same as FASST with telemetry. FASST uses 36 hopping frequencies spread over the whole 2.4gHz band where as FASSTest only uses 22. Although, the banbwidth of FASST transmissions is v/slightly narrower than FASSTest. S-FHSS only uses 22 v/narrow bandwidth transmissions in the lower half of the 2.4gHz band.