What is happening in Futaba?

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

Same as Bob says, I tightened up the springs it was too soft a feel for me.

John

[Martyn K]

Posted by gangster on 19/05/2015 10:36:08:

Martyn

Have a look at this post it might help although its a totally different tranny involved

All Forum Topics > Futaba > Dual ailerons on T8J with 6 channel receiver

Thanks Gangster

Typo at my end - it is an 8j, not G... I'll take a look

Martyn

[Josip Vrandecic -Mes]

Here's something new :

**LINK**

[Martin Whybrow]

Posted by Josip Vrandecic -Mes on 30/05/2015 14:04:53:

Here's something new :

**LINK**

Who's going to be the first to order a T18SZ for $163?????

Edited By Martin Whybrow on 30/05/2015 15:49:29

[kc]

A note further down says shipping costs may exceed purchase price! And do you actually know what it says in Japanese ( or is it Chinese?) You might be just buying an instruction book or something for the T18.....

[John Privett]

LOL, kc. I was thinking exactly the same!

I did actually translate (or rather fed it to Google to translate) some of the Chinese text to see what it said. Goodness knows how it will render on here, but;

M1右手油门（日本手）translates as "M1 hand throttle ( Japan hand)"

and

M2右手油门（美国手）translates as "M2 hand throttle ( American Sign )"

I think that means it's available as Mode 1 or Mode 2! And I wonder if the Chinese ARTF producers use Google translate to produce their instruction manuals...

[Stevo]

Goes for JR too. The manual is total rubbish and I threw it away and had to learn by twiddling. It's a Marmite Tx, (XG8) . Got on with it just fine.

Edited By Stevo on 30/05/2015 19:25:49

[kc]

Assuming it weighs less than 2 kilos and is a big parcel the calculator says it would cost 212 dollars shipped. This seems too cheap. For 163 dollars you probably get a rip off copy TX or perhaps a genuine Futaba neckstrap!

[..]

Business as usual as far as I can see , all be it in a much more crowded market than 10 years ago. The legal changes affecting the FASST system would I imagine not have helped the company but they already had the FHSS system in place and its not as if the FASST equipment wont work anymore.

They do(contrary to the original post) have a six channel into set on the market the T6J and have sets marketed at all price/spec ranges across the board the same as ever.

As stated in the thread, RC is only a part of the business and as to if chasing the new low cost competition interests them well that will remain to be seen.

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[Dave Hopkin]

Spektrums marketing strategy has been remarkably clever, making low cost entry level sets like the DX5 and forging partnerships with ARTF suppliers to turn them into RTF's and BNF's

As we all know changing radio brands is a pain and leaves a lot of kit redundant so we tend to stick with the same brand

[..]

Yes Percy, Maybe they just don't see chasing the low cost manufacturers financially viable and are happy to just keep a foothold in the market.

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[Frank Skilbeck]

Posted by Dave Hopkin on 31/05/2015 08:41:16:

Spektrums marketing strategy has been remarkably clever, making low cost entry level sets like the DX5 and forging partnerships with ARTF suppliers to turn them into RTF's and BNF's

Dave I think it goers further than partnerships, they are all part of the Horizon family so essentially one company. But yes, while Spektrum isn't my main radio I do have a Dx6i for the BnF stuff.

[..]

Posted by Percy Verance on 31/05/2015 08:51:42:

 

I don't suppose they're happy for a minute Justin, but it would appear they simply don't know how to respond any more. About 35 or so years ago Futaba had the r/c market stitched up, with huge worldwide sales. Hardly anyone considered buying anything other than Futaba once over. In the UK alone, they eventually saw off just about all the home grown radio manufacturers.

It'll be interesting to see what direction Futaba take next. Assuming they see the need for change that is.......

 

 

Edited By Percy Verance on 31/05/2015 08:54:00

 

 

 

The same as IBM & the PC I suppose Percy. 

Edited By Justin K. on 31/05/2015 09:06:09

Edited By Justin K. on 31/05/2015 09:07:01

[Stevo]

Well congratulations guys

Usually anything like this usually turns into Tx Wars; there some great balanced comments on here and it's good to see.

My own take really reflects what has already been said; Futaba really had more than a lion's share. FASST was a bit pricey, perhaps released rather too quick,when some Rxs would only work with some Txs... The'budget' guys got in quick, (Spektrum, I had a DX6 and DX7) with their own stuff... JR fell out of bed withSpektrum and went DMSS.. (where I am now).

I'm not keeping too much of a watch Futaba's developments simply as I don't use them. For most of us who are content with pottering around the sky... learning how to hover... weekend flyers etc. (I certainly do not mean to be demeaning - as... that's me!) whether it be Futaba, JR, FrSky... is personal preference; and we are blessed with a remarkably good choice, much beter than 10 years back!

However for what used to be the biggest name in RC to take the eye off the ball regards the competition...

[gangster]

e. About 35 or so years ago Futaba had the r/c market stitched up, with huge worldwide sales. Hardly anyone considered buying anything other than Futaba once over.

well that is of course except those that bought Sanwa,JR Kraft Simprop and Fleet and were more than happy with them. I have never been loyal to any one brand and bought what suited me at the time Back in the late 70 I had Skyleader and when the time came to upgrade my old AM Skyleader I decided that Futaba was the way to go they had just brought out the J series crazy price but I had to have one, Lo and behold when I was about to invest people were having problems with the receivers . Went into my LMS and was shown the Sanwa black custom cheaper, looked better far better quality and feel. Servos were not as good as Futaba though so I used Futaba 128 and later 148. Good move never missed a beat and still as good over 20 years later . Time came to replace my old Skyleader FM and I toddled into the LMS and asked for a FF7 ( the latest model of the original) sorry said shop man it's discontinued they now do a FF8 he handed it to me and I was frankly disappointed with the plasticky feel,and it's price. The LMS man smiled and said this is what you want and handed me a Hitec PrismX7 wow I was impressed but in the late 80s Hitec was still regarded with derision and distrust. Boy it did look and feel good and when compared with an example of the Futaba I went in for I preferred the Hitec. It's was also a blatant copy of the Futaba, but in my opinion way better. It still hadn't given a moments trouble when I finally sold it in 2013 . Still using the servos they are magnificent. I was also glad I had bought it instead of the FF8 as people were breaking theirs.

Time came to change the old Sanwa totally faultless all it's life,I suppose I should have had a Hitec Eclipse but fell in love with a JR 378 still flying it on 35 as well as a pcm9

time came to try 2.4 didn't really like any of the mid Price radios so ended up buying both Futaba 8j and Spectrum DX8 both perfect radios of a similar market position but I do have to admit the in terms of feel looks,quality feel and features the speky wipes the floor with the 8j

i guess that it all boils down to feeling good about your radio and having confidence in it. If you are confident about one particular make then use it.

I can really see why those who have enjoyed and trusted Futaba over many years are disappointed when they can no longer supply a radio that fits their needs

[..]

Gangster, where are Futaba not supplying a radio that doesn't fit the bill? They have a good range throughout the various price bands? 

 

An interesting point that's come up is that a fair few have bought into more than one brand. I use a Futaba 14sg and have at times considered gelling a cheap spectrum 6 channel set in order to fly some parkzone stuff but I wouldn't want to spend out an an expensive all singing & dancing spectrum seeing as I have a Futaba for that.

I do like training using the spectrum wireless mode tho.

Edited By Justin K. on 31/05/2015 11:24:34

[Dave Hopkin]

Posted by Frank Skilbeck on 31/05/2015 08:55:05:

Posted by Dave Hopkin on 31/05/2015 08:41:16:

Spektrums marketing strategy has been remarkably clever, making low cost entry level sets like the DX5 and forging partnerships with ARTF suppliers to turn them into RTF's and BNF's

Dave I think it goers further than partnerships, they are all part of the Horizon family so essentially one company. But yes, while Spektrum isn't my main radio I do have a Dx6i for the BnF stuff.

I based that on the fact that I am pretty sure Horizon dont actually make the ARTF's, I assume they design them, then sub contract them to Chinese factories to mass produce cheaply - I find it hard to believe that eash ARTF supplier has their own bespoke factory, I suspect there are a few Chinese factories that make planes for multiple suppliers (Just look at how many Bixler clones are around the place and no copyright infringement cases in action!)

[gangster]

Gangster, where are Futaba not supplying a radio that doesn't fit the bill? They have a good range throughout the various price bands?

Hi Justin. I thought this was what the whole thread was about. Loyal customers feeling that their favourite and trusted brand were not delivering what they wanted

[..]

Yes but if you read the thread there is an entry level 6 channel set available from Futaba?

[Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator]

I've been following this thread with some interest and intending to post with a little history! But the history needed a bit of research and so its had to wait until a windy Sunday when I can't do anything else! So, here goes - something to think about,....

On the 2nd April 2014 I started this thread. It basically asked the question "What were the 'big boys' going to do about the emergence of Taranis - with all those features and that flexibility at a bargain basement price?"

One of my predictions was that of all the 'big boys' the one at greatest risk was Futaba - and that we could even see their eventual exit from battleground.

Wow did I take some stick for that! I was basically told by some that I was talking rubbish, Futaba will never go under in the hobby R/C market, they have seen off competition before, they are a quality manufacturer etc etc.

Well, that was a little over 12 months ago. Let's look at what has happened since:

1. In our poll on what Tx you use, conducted in May 2014, Futaba were down to 31%. This compares with the 41% they scored in a previous poll in 2011. A very significant reduction in market share.

2. Futaba's seemingly chaotic approach to protocols has now led to them abandoning FASST - and all its users - making the future of the considerable investment these users have made extremely uncertain (and I speak as a former FASST user).

3. Now we have the emergence of this thread - and it seems to me that the question I asked back in April 2014 is now being asked by a lot more people!

I stick by my prediction. Unless there is a major revolution inside Futaba's board room (very unlikely), its days as a major player in RC equipment are over. At best now its future is as a minority player, but I still think that the most likely scenario will be their eventual complete withdrawal from the market as their share shrinks below what they need to be viable given the size of the company and its other interests.

I take no pleasure in making this prediction, I was for very many years a committed Futaba user. But even the most loyal user must eventually recognise the basic facts; Futaba have been left behind and they have failed to respond to the market's wants. They continue in that failure. There isn't a future for companies that do that.

BEB

[gangster]

The sentiments expressed in the 4 pages of the thread reach further than entry level.

[Frank Skilbeck]

Posted by Dave Hopkin on 31/05/2015 11:28:49:

Posted by Frank Skilbeck on 31/05/2015 08:55:05:

Posted by Dave Hopkin on 31/05/2015 08:41:16:

Spektrums marketing strategy has been remarkably clever, making low cost entry level sets like the DX5 and forging partnerships with ARTF suppliers to turn them into RTF's and BNF's

 

Dave I think it goers further than partnerships, they are all part of the Horizon family so essentially one company. But yes, while Spektrum isn't my main radio I do have a Dx6i for the BnF stuff.

I based that on the fact that I am pretty sure Horizon dont actually make the ARTF's, I assume they design them, then sub contract them to Chinese factories to mass produce cheaply - I find it hard to believe that eash ARTF supplier has their own bespoke factory, I suspect there are a few Chinese factories that make planes for multiple suppliers (Just look at how many Bixler clones are around the place and no copyright infringement cases in action!)

Slightly going off the Futaba topic, but essentially yes, just like Apple don't actually manufacture their IPhones but have them built by a company in China. Shouldn't Bixler clones read Easy Star clones

It wouldn't surprise me if Futaba (and Spektrum) subcontract out the manufacture of at least some of their transmitters, receivers and servos (I think Spektrum servos come from the same factory as Savox). But the point is that Horizon have many brands in their line up and integrate them were possible, look at their ARFT trainers with inbuilt stablisation etc It's this one stop shop when you are starting that has probably hit Futaba hard, previously you'd have bought a Futaba to buddy up to those the club members already have.

Edited By Frank Skilbeck on 31/05/2015 13:45:31

Edited By Frank Skilbeck on 31/05/2015 13:49:30

[Erfolg]

I do see a similar future that BEB has painted.

Some of the personal histories of one or two contributors resonated with me also.

It is the combination of these images which does indicate to me that Futabas time at the top of the pile is over.

There was a time that it could be justified to pay the higher price that a Futaba set commanded in the 70s. In that era, my radios were Waltron, Sanwa, a Micron and a Futaba Gold 6. Futaba was for its era bullet proof, in that the equipment was both electrically reliable and had very good discrimination, particularly in the days of 27. My Sanwa sets at a feature level was comparable to Futaba, but its issues with polarity of cables made the set a issue. This set also was modified to provide mixing and an extra channel, the majority already built in, but not connected up. The Micron provided all that the Sanwa did and was my second model back up for competitions, a excellent set. Yet at that time the top of the pile was Futaba, no issues with cable polarity, built in mixing. Worth the money, comparatively.

I came back to modelling at the beginning of the 2.4 revolution. I did persevere with a 35 6EXA, which was good value, with a multi model memory, this meant I only needed one radio. No more note book, with details of alternative model set ups. I then bought a 2.4 EXA, but quickly ran out of model memories, so I bought a 8FG. Up to this point all was well in my RC world. But the silly Rx prices were an issue.

Having arrived at today, I now see Spektrum, who are less concerned than most USA companies about clones etc. I guess the reason is, they will sell you a basic radio, a most accomplished with comprehensive features radio, which talk to you and provide real time Telemetry, all at attractive prices. The driving force to look else where is not there. Particularly when backed up with the BNF models, using their gear, from many sources, not all Horizon, although most probably are. The models range from palm of the hand gyro stabilised GeeBees, Parkzone semi scale models seen at the field, to almost every area of aeromodelling. All at prices that all can afford. Pretty impressive.

Then there is my next radio set Frsky, as a RC set, everything at a price which is more than competitive with Spektrum. I am now only waiting to decide when and what, a Taranis, perhaps a Huros. The weakness of Frsky at present is communicating where they are going with their range.

Which brings us back to Futaba! Now in a world, where all the major brands are pretty much comparable from a reliability view point. Yet Futaba are way behind the field with Telemetry. Then there is the issue of cost, for less capability far to expensive compared to the competitors, which is also true of JR etc. There is no logic to the marketing from the consumers perspective.

As has been suggested, there are occasional glimpses of Japenese and some USA branded goods, where they are manufactured and by whom. Many of our Labels, have divisions in China, Korea, Singapore, which may lead you to believe that that is where they manufacture. When the curtains are slightly parted, what do you discover? That companies such as LG are making and badging many of TVs for many Japanese as well as other companies. Or that Samsung have been making many of the Apple products, which lead to litigation of IT theft. That nearly every electronic product you can think of, is being churned out in the self same factories, that many die hard Futaba, et al, feel cannot be trusted, as they are far to low cost and must therefore be unreliable rubbish.

Its a pity, but I do fear that Futaba have lost the plot.