Scruffmeister Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 I'm just getting ready to apply some glass cloth to my Wot4 kit build around the firewall and undercarriage bays for a bit of strengthening. I've not tried this before so would appreciate some pointers, especially: 1) The material seems to fray when I cut it and when I tested epoxying it to a piece of wood and spreading the epoxy the fraying became worse leaving detached fibres. Any tricks here? 2) Should I thin the epoxy (I have standard Zap 30 min) mix? 3) Do you put glue, then glass on or then more glue. Or glass down dry then apply glue or something else? Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Wood Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 Hi Scruff, The fraying is difficult to avoid - but using very sharp scissors when cutting helps. Finishing resin is much better for this job than standard epoxy - it brushes easily. Brush on a thin coat, lay on the cloth & brush in more resin, making sure the cloth is firmly secured. As it's internal, the cosmetic quality isn't really too important! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrman Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 As Richard said, Finishing Resin is better but you can thin the epoxy adhesive with, preferably isopropyl alcohol but failing that methylated spirits can be used but no more than 10%. Brush the thinned resin on, lay the cloth on then "stipple" the additional resin on. Don't brush the second coat of resin as that will just pull the cloth and separate the frayed edges even more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scruffmeister Posted June 4, 2015 Author Share Posted June 4, 2015 Would finishing resin be the same thing as "low viscosity epoxy laminating resin (not 5 minute type), mixed with appropriate hardener" that Chris Foss notes in the manual for joining the wings? Would something like this be suitable for both wing joining and glass application around firewall/UC? http://www.bucks-composites.com/products/bucks-formula-50-laminating-epoxy-resin-hardener-24-hour-cure-time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Wood Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 Yes, it's the same resin used for the wing joining fibreglass bandage. The low viscosity resin you've linked to looks ideal for both jobs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scruffmeister Posted June 4, 2015 Author Share Posted June 4, 2015 Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scruffmeister Posted June 4, 2015 Author Share Posted June 4, 2015 Unfortunately the Bucks Composite product I linked is unavailable. Any recommendations for a good quality finishing resin? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrman Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 Try phoning Graham at Bucks Composites. Although the on line pages list it as unavailable it is still in his online catalogue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgan Goule Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 Got my finishing resin from bucks composites good stuff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken anderson. Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 hello SM.....my way---5 min epoxy....put on with a brush--lay the cloth on and dab it in until its in position and soaked-jobs a goodin....don't bother shelling out for any other stuff-use the epoxy-done it for years and it works. ken Anderson...ne...1 ...tech dept. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scruffmeister Posted June 4, 2015 Author Share Posted June 4, 2015 Makes sense Ken for strengthening - but given I need to join wings I'm assuming finishing resin really is the only way to go here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Tee Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 Yes, use finishing resin, you want a join which is flexible, strong and light. 5min epoxy will not give you that. Google info on how epoxy resins set. Basically the longer an epoxy resin takes to set the stronger and more flexible it will be, traits you want when joining wings, reinforcing fire walls or undercarriage mounts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Hargreaves - Moderator Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 These guys offer a good range of resins & glass/carbon/kevlar cloths...some good tutorials on there too.... Here is a smallish pack of resin/hardener.....I've used this & it works well for modelling applications Not used them but these guys look interesting too with a very handy modeller sized bottle of epoxy just here... Epoxy/glass is pretty easy to do SC.....simply brush the area to be reinforced with a good layer of resin....apply the cloth & stipple more resin into the cloth until the cloth is soaked through. Add extra layers of cloth as appropriate, adding more resin to wet out the cloth. Epoxy is pretty heavy though so don't go mad.....just enough to fill the weave of the cloth otherwise it will run & pool at the lowest point adding weight but not much else. Practice on some scrap wood/joints & you'll be fine....the worst bit is the 5 mins before you start....you'll soon be 'glassing away with the best of them.... Good Luck.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scruffmeister Posted June 5, 2015 Author Share Posted June 5, 2015 Thanks Steve. I managed to swap emails with Graham at Bucks Composites yesterday and he's sorting me out with some Formula 50, but the other links you sent look good for next time! I'll post some pictures when I've finished making a mess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Engine Doctor Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Hello scruffmiester. Re the fraying of the glass cloth. A way to stop or reduce the fraying is to spray the cloth with hair spray/lacquer first. Allow to dry before cutting . The dried spray soon dissolves when the epoxy is stippled into the cloth and it doesn't appear to effect the setting , strength or other properties of the epoxy. Not very good on chopped glass matting but excellent on woven cloth . If using ordinary epoxy adhesive then the 30 main variety will give you a bit more time to get it applied. As said it can / should be thinned 10% max to help it soak into the cloth. I generally use some methanol or methylated spirit but cheap grade cellulose thinner works fine as it contains a lot of methanol these days. Don't over thin it or it will weaken the resin and affect the setting time Edited By Engine Doctor on 05/06/2015 08:31:01 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ernie Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Hi Scruff, Also, the glass cloth is important. I wouldn't touch the car repair stuff. I reckon that the lightest, in several layers is best Try 6oz/sq yard.....Ernie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrman Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Ernie, I think you probably meant 0.6oz/sq yd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ernie Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 OH, no wonder my glassed hotliner is not even slightly tepid. Of course your'e absolutely spot on ernie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Hargreaves - Moderator Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 +1 for the use of woven cloth too....MUCH stronger than the chopped strand matting you can buy for car repairs.....this adds bulk & weight but not much strength.... If you check the suppliers I linked to above & have a look around their sites you will find lots of cloths of differing weights...some with carbon or kevlar in them which are probably a bit overkill for this sort of job.....also agree with Ernie (did you really drive the fastest milkcart in he West??...) about using several layers of thin stuff rather than one layer of thick stuff... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Lucas 4 Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 Don't forget the 1st coat of resin is just to stick the cloth to the wood the second is to fill the weave ,with the second coat I mix microballons in with the resin this helps fill the weave and also helps keep the weight down. Apply 1st coat with an old credit card leave for 24hours or until thoroughly dry Second coat with an 1/2 paint brush again leave until dry When dry rub down with 80 grade sand paper to knock off any lumps and bumps and any overhanging cloth then finish with a fine sand paper using light pressure Being as you are doing only the firewall and undercarriage plate this is all you really need to do Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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