Max Z Posted July 12, 2016 Author Share Posted July 12, 2016 Posted by Peter Miller on 12/07/2016 09:10:17: It is also a bit like the Payen Katy. A French delta design. I saw the Katy many years ago in the Le Bourget-Paris museum, iirc it was jet powered. And, deep in the heap somewhere, I have a French magazine with a pull-out plan of it. But I honestly did not look it up when I designed the Verhees Delta, let alone copy it......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Z Posted July 12, 2016 Author Share Posted July 12, 2016 Now that I've got Peter-the-plan-man on board, let's talk about drafting up a plan for a minute. Firstly and foremost I will see how the finished model performs before starting any work on a plan, but given that it goes well I have a few dilemmas. As I said before, it will not be too difficult to create a plan from the 3D cad design, I can project the structure from any angle onto the plan. I can isolate parts of it and also project these. But the question is how much. Is it sufficient to draw up sufficiently annotated top-, front- and side views or should I really show every part that needs to be cut out on the plan. The second dilemma: I have designed the VD as an interlocking structure, with slots and tabs everywhere to ensure that it can be constructed without the need for a jig or extensive measurements to align the various parts. Obviously the lattice type frame can only be constructed by cutting slots and sliding the ribs and spars together, but other parts could be simplified by getting rid of the tabs and slots and leave it to the builder to locate the parts properly. It should be no surprise that I designed the VD for kit production, and if it gets that far ready cut parts will most likely be available. My question is whether the plan should show those kind of simplifications for those who want to build from scratch, or just stick to the shape of the pre-cut parts. Your views please, Max. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piers Bowlan Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 Do two plans or leave it to builders to omit the tabs and slots if they are not building from a set of CNC cut parts? Regarding the lack of space for the LiPo Max, how about using a twist and turn retract similar to this. OK it is not scale but then the full size does not have a big LiPo to accommodate either and it would free up a lot of space. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J V R Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 Max Z I like it and I would like to see both sets of plans and then decide which to use, fingers crossed and waiting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Miller Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 Posted by Max Z on 12/07/2016 09:22:23: Posted by Peter Miller on 12/07/2016 09:10:17: It is also a bit like the Payen Katy. A French delta design. I saw the Katy many years ago in the Le Bourget-Paris museum, iirc it was jet powered. And, deep in the heap somewhere, I have a French magazine with a pull-out plan of it. But I honestly did not look it up when I designed the Verhees Delta, let alone copy it......... I am sure that you did not. The question is: Did Verhees copy it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Miller Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 Personally I HAVE to start from a flat plan but you should have no problem. A plan and side view are essential. Then you need to show the parts that have to be cut out if they cannot be seen on the plan i.e. on a normal model you do not need to show thr fuselage sides as well as the side view.. You could show all the ribs superimposed together. Looking at your design with its eggbox construction you might get away with a well annotated perspective view or two and all the parts drawn out for cutting out.. Knowing how easily people can get mixed up or puzzled I like to draw the most deatailed plan and best instructions possible but that is just the way I like to do it. Possible the very best way to do it would be to produce a plan as you think it should be and give it to a fellow modeller and ask them what they think of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Z Posted July 12, 2016 Author Share Posted July 12, 2016 Posted by Peter Miller on 12/07/2016 12:47:50:You could show all the ribs superimposed together. Looking at your design with its eggbox construction you might get away with a well annotated perspective view or two and all the parts drawn out for cutting out.. Yeah, that's probably what I will do, although most people seem to like a top view so they can check the alignment and see to it that it does not get skewed. I have designed alignment tabs on the underside of each rib and on the rear spar so the basic frame can rest on the building board to avoid warping. And the tail wheel box rests on the board as well. I figured that I should do the top sheeting first so I can press it down without distorting the wing, after that the assembly should be sufficiently stable to do the underside "in the air" (after cutting off the tabs). I did the linkages for the nose wheel steering and the rudder today, managed to work them both from the same servo: Max. Edited By Max Z on 12/07/2016 17:15:33 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Z Posted July 12, 2016 Author Share Posted July 12, 2016 Posted by KiwiKid on 12/07/2016 07:46:58:Really intriguing project. Looks like something from the drawing board of Alexander Lippisch - he went with pointy tail option. Hi KiwiKid, nice to hear from NZ. I lived there for a while, back in the 80's. Yes, that does resemble it. My friend Rob did a Horten which resembles that and sells kits of it, look here. Max. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattyB Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 Nice work Max, but I guess I am missing something re: the retract unit - looking at the pics it seems like the linkage would bind up as it retracts, putting a lot of pressure back onto the servo. Could you show some detailed pics of the retract end of the linkage in it's up and down positions, or maybe a short video? Thanks. Edited By MattyB on 13/07/2016 09:28:16 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Z Posted July 13, 2016 Author Share Posted July 13, 2016 Matty, I dismantled all gear because I am starting the sheeting process, so I cannot show you any real pictures. What I have done is show the down and up positions in cad, and subtract some pictures from that. Note that I did not bother to show the leg in the no load position, I just rotated it by 90 degrees. As you can see the pushrod connector rotates on a slider, which can slide up and down on the post that sits on the end of the steering arm, which is the same as the original HK unit (from which I took the post and slider). With the gear retracted, this post lies horizontally and the slider can move freely when the rudder servo is steering: Max. Edited By Max Z on 13/07/2016 13:52:42 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Z Posted July 13, 2016 Author Share Posted July 13, 2016 I lost the picture, here is a new version: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattyB Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 Ahhh, gotcha - many thanks. I had not noticed the "pinch" type connector between the linkage and the steering post in the original pics, and had assumed it was a traditional clevice which of course cannot rotate in the same way. Edited By MattyB on 15/07/2016 12:50:53 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindsay Todd Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 impressive use of 3d and very neat build, watching with great interest. Linds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Z Posted July 16, 2016 Author Share Posted July 16, 2016 Thanks Lindsay. I thought I'd show you some pictures of the sheeting progress, and the "tools" I am using: I made a paper template, set out the pattern and prepared the sheeting from 1.5 mm balsa sheets, leaving some excess all around. I set out a couple of alignment marks, then glued the sheeting with medium cyano to the spars and the LE first. From the inside I wicked thin cyano into the rib and sheeting joints, pressing them by hand from the outside. The bottom sheeting is the difficult bit. First you have to make sure that the servo extension leads are in place. I then put a bead of PVA glue on all the joints, except for the LE and TE which are glued with medium cyano. I stuck the sheeting in place, making sure that the LE and TE are properly glued together, the turned everything right side up again, lowered it on the sheet of corrugated (? bumpy? what's the right word...) foam rubber you can see in the picture and used my assorted weights to push the whole thing down and hopefully put enough pressure on the PVA until it is cured. The glue is drying as I am writing this, so I will report the success rate later. Max. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Miller Posted July 16, 2016 Share Posted July 16, 2016 Interesting. Did you know that if you apply aliphatic resn to both sides of a joint and let it dry you can iron them together with a hot iron. It is a once only process so if you fet it wrong you can't unglue them with heat. I believe that it polymerises the glue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Z Posted July 16, 2016 Author Share Posted July 16, 2016 Yes, I have heard of that old trick, but I have never done it that way (or I cannot remember doing that ). It may have been an alternative, but it's too late now (unless I do the second half like that, let's see how it turns out first. By the way, the foam came in very handy while working on the underside with the top sheeting already on. Good grip and no shunting damage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattyB Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 Any more progress Max? I am eager to hear how this one flies... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Z Posted July 21, 2016 Author Share Posted July 21, 2016 Posted by MattyB on 21/07/2016 12:51:53: Any more progress Max? I am eager to hear how this one flies... Matty, I had hoped to be able to show you guys a semi-completed model by now, but due to weather conditions this is not possible. You see, my building "shed" is actually the top floor of my house, which is a wood clad structure with a flat roof, and it is simply too hot to do any building. Temperatures have been steadily rising over the last 5 days, the worst was yesterday with temperatures well into the 30's. The sheeting went well, with some difficulties on the underside of the TE, because of the anhedral it was not possible to use my David plane to shave the hard balsa TE parts into shape, so I had to resort to scalpel and sanding block. I will need some filler I am afraid. I also attached and shaped the LE pieces from 8 mm medium balsa sheet. Max. Edited By Max Z on 21/07/2016 16:15:58 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Z Posted July 24, 2016 Author Share Posted July 24, 2016 It was quite hot in my workshop, but I cracked on regardless... It is still some way from being finished, but I could not resist doing a little mock up, so here goes: Max Edited By Max Z on 24/07/2016 14:57:16 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattyB Posted August 1, 2016 Share Posted August 1, 2016 Wow, that looks fantastic Max! You are a very neat builder. I am really looking forward to hearing the flight report and seeing the video - if you can get the CG right I think it has all the makings of an excellent flyer, as the delta platform is generally very forgiving. Brilliant! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattyB Posted August 1, 2016 Share Posted August 1, 2016 PS - If this does become a plan I will definitely be up for building one, though probably in Depron rather than balsa. I presume your 3D printing company will be able to produce the oleo units en mass should RCM&E decide to pickup the plan? Edited By MattyB on 01/08/2016 17:00:25 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Z Posted August 1, 2016 Author Share Posted August 1, 2016 Hi Matty, Yes, I can make the springy nose gear leg (as I like to call it) available from the 3D printing company (Shapeways.com). When it has proven itself I will release it for direct selling by them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattyB Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 Bumpity bump - any progress towards the maiden flight? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Z Posted August 17, 2016 Author Share Posted August 17, 2016 Progress yes, but little to show. I have been struggling a bit on details like the tailwheel fairing and the cockpit glazing. You know, deliberating on how to tackle these things, finding a way forward, starting it and then finding out it is the wrong way and I have to start the process again..... All very time consuming. But I am getting there. Right now the weather here is favorable for house painting and model flying, guess which one won the dilemma... I'll see if I can place some detail shots if you are interested (of the plane, not the house ). Max. Edited By Max Z on 17/08/2016 18:31:25 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy G. Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 Liking the look of this one! A very neat build too. Waiting patiently for some flight details. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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