JR closing down?

[TIM Shaw]

I switched to JR in about 1987 after an unfortunate experience with an (admittedly S/H) Field Force 7. Over the years I have had several of their sets and I still have an X3810, PCM9x, PCM 9X2 and a DSX9. With the exception of the 9X, which has a flat back-up battery, which seems to be impossible to replace, I have had only one radio related problem in all that time.

That came about when I returned to IC flying and put a cheap 2.4 RX (which I had flown for years without problems in gliders) in a scaled down Mach 1. Went into failsafe and wrote it off at just 14 days old.

I agree with the statement above about the feel of the JR sticks, and particularly the balance of the 35meg gear, in my view the DSX9 does not balance in the hands as well due the lack of the old style ariel.

After that crash I decided I was due an upgrade and went to see what my LHS had. I found they no longer deal with JR, I didn't like either the styling or the price of the new JR sets, nor the lack of compatibility with the earlier RXs.

I now have a Hitec Aurora 9X which I like a lot and find much easier to program.

I also bought one of the earlier Taranis sets but I can't seem to get on with that at all - the sticks feel nasty, and I think you need to rewire your brain in a way mine doesn't seem to like. It has to be said though that several of my club mates have them and love them, so I guess it's just a question of preference.

We do have a few Jetti fans in the club, but I would say most fly Spectrum.

[Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator]

Again Peter I find myself agreeing with a lot of what you say. For some the extra bells and whistles on the ever more sophisticated Tx's will never see serious use. But with the greatest respect that's not entirely the point - its very much as Percy as said - whether they will use them or not, the fact is a lot of folks want them. So these features sell transmitters - whether they will be used or not - and in doing so they take market share away from those that don't offer them. My view is that the more long standing manufacturers have been caught out flat-footed here by a bunch of new comers into the market who are very technically savy and on-the-ball. The former "big-boys" have, in my opinion been found wanting in their response to this.

You see, have they responded in kind - have they decided to "out tech" the techies? It would appear not, sadly. What they are doing could be described as "steady as she goes" - relatively minor and sometimes rather pedestrian new features brought in often 12 - 18 months behind when they were "standard issue" on the new-boys' kit. Still not the really whizzy stuff, and often at eye watering prices! It won't do anymore. And the gap is widening all the time - just take a look at the spec of the new Horus Tx from FrSky - it's amazing. OK its also £500, not cheap, but incredible value for money in terms of what you get for that. With Taranis at the cheaper end and Horus at the upper end, you can see a very aggressive, comprehensive, marketing strategy. Where is the response? This can't just be ignored - it isn't going to go away!

And I'm afraid I don't buy the "you get what you pay for" mantra which is often used to defend the established manufacturers pricing structure. It may be still partially true for mechanical components - although even there the difference is shrinking rapidly and the spec of the gimbles/switches etc in many of the so-called "quality makes" is not so clearly better now - but where it most certainly does not apply in my view is to the electronics. I have had the Tx and some Rx's apart on my FrSky gear - the quality of manufacture is beyond reproach - first class. I think this is largely due to the fact that as "new boys", who are relatively well financed, make no mistake about that, the likes of FrSky are not a twopence-alfpenny enterprise, have the very latest electronics fabrication and inspection kit in their factories because they are just that - new boys! Hence high quality. I used Futaba before - and had no reliability issues. I've used FrSky for two years and,...have had no reliability issues. Just the same - but at a fraction of the cost and with much higher specs.

Contrary to what Justin thinks I'm actually very lucky and I'm not a "hard up pensioner"! I am fully prepared to invest in expensive gear - if I believe I'm genuinely getting something for my investment. But what I'm not prepared to do is pay premium prices for the same reliability and a lower specification!

Why are these companies more expensive? Well of course we can't know, but I would speculate that it isn't mainly because somehow they are using higher cost more expensive bought in components. I think its partly that they have got used to being able to charge those prices, gleaning that sort of margin on sales and their business model is based on that premiss. I think its partly because their costs are higher, due to where their design and manufacturing centres are located. And it is these points of course that JR seem to be trying to address - let's hope its not too late. But it would have to be accompanied with a far more technically adventurous R&D outlook to really make a difference and it here I have my doubts about their ability to change.

Some have asked what it all may look like in 10 years - well we can only guess. But what we can do is have another of our "Tx Manufacturer Surveys". We have done two of these so far in previous years and interesting trends started to show in just the second one. We will do a third one in February (next month). It will be fascinating to see how things are shaping up. OK, they are not a "scientific survey" - but they are an interesting "finger on the pulse".

BEB

Edited By Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 02/01/2017 13:04:05

[FilmBuff]

@BEB
Is it also the job of a moderator to have a certain arrogance and boast about how even with their pension they are better off than most people who are in full-time work?

[Don Fry]

Now I am not usually in the job of defending moderators who are big enough and ugly enough to defend themselves, but read the post where the rich moderator was introduced. BEB is being consistent here.

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

Get a grip lads you're being silly.

John

[gangster]

Posted by john stones 1 on 02/01/2017 11:23:31:

9X 35 mhz user myself and i've never used a box that feels better, it's balanced, sticks are good and it sits in my hands as though it's tailor made,

Likewise John totally agree and I believe we will never see radio of this quality again. I hope to keep mine for a very long time just dont know whether to go the down the Frsky module route or stick on 35MHz with the lovely PCM receivers I have been able to buy secondhand at cheap price.

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

Posted by gangster on 02/01/2017 18:02:55:

Posted by john stones 1 on 02/01/2017 11:23:31:

9X 35 mhz user myself and i've never used a box that feels better, it's balanced, sticks are good and it sits in my hands as though it's tailor made,

Likewise John totally agree and I believe we will never see radio of this quality again. I hope to keep mine for a very long time just dont know whether to go the down the Frsky module route or stick on 35MHz with the lovely PCM receivers I have been able to buy secondhand at cheap price.

I have quite a few rx's ppm/pcm sat in draw if you want them very cheap, plenty xtals as well Gangster, would sooner they get used by someone rather than get binned.

John

[gangster]

PM sent John

[Dave Bran]

I have just given away the only JR Transmitter I have ever owned, to the ex-school club helper (all the way from 11 to 18!) now at York Uni.

They had formed a "Quad" Society just before he arrived and once they knew he'd had flying lessons from me and was passed solo they are getting all fired up about Fixed Wing and Helicopters, so I have donated four ready to go EPP foam planes from Indoor to Parkfly and the Tx.

With ALL my other 35Mhz Tx being Futaba or Multiplex, I was limited on what crystals I could donate. They have one JR capable Tx and two common use single conversion Rx crystals on 72. I have no shortage of Rx I can pass over, its the crystals and in particular the (odd, as I understand they used a different multiplier) JR Tx ones.

If anyone would like to donate to a good cause to widen their scope, please PM me.

[David Ovenden]

Piers and Peter,

Interesting to note that the first 2 responses to my post had the exact opposite response to the "look" of the XG series transmitters. I really do think that the new style really polarised opinion on the latest JR tx. Also interesting that the latest model ( the top of the range 28x) reverted to a much more conventional styling. Lesson learned too late?

Also interesting is the number of comments about how good the 9X, DSX9, 9303 transmitter design was. I found that everything was in the right place and that the sliders on the side of the Tx were ideal as you can reach them without taking your hand of the sticks. I always use the left hand slider for flaps on my scale models and can have full control of everything at all times. I still use my 9303 (US version of the 9X) with a DMSS module for a lot of my flying.

I do have an XG11 too, which works fine but the sliders are positioned right at the back of the (large) case and I find these very hard to locate and almost always end up inadvertently adding rudder input as I "search" for the slider. Is it just me? The result is I only use the XG11 for non flap-equipped models. Which is rather a shame on a high end unit I feel.

Peter, if you use you XG11 on a tray, doesn't that block access to the sliders?

All of which is a roundabout way of saying I still very much like and use my 9303 and 10X they work so well for me. So maybe looks and ergonomics do play a real part in the success or otherwise of tx design and affect sales volumes in spite of what new gizmos are included on a new model. Personally I don' t think the robot face look brought in many punters. You might expect the design to attract a younger customer, but I doubt it did.

Edited By David Ovenden on 02/01/2017 18:48:09

[Robert Parker]

I have been reading this thread with great interest, as a JR user for over 15 years I like the quality and feel of the JR transmitters.

I was looking to upgrade my transmitter back in November and fancied buying the XG11 MV which for me was an ideal transmitter being able to use my existing DSM/X receivers with my DM9 module from my old PCM9 and my plan was during the course of time to up grade to the new JR DMSS receivers with the supplied DMSS module. However, cost was a little high even at a discounted price of £589.95, sadly there was not any to be found in the UK at the time and suppliers were unsure when the next shipment would arrive but the price would increase due to "Brexit" I was informed.

So I decided to purchase a Spektrum DX9 instead, knowing that they came from the JR brand- for me It does not have the same feel of quality compared to my old JR PCM9, it feels cheap. Perhaps it will take time for me to adjust to it, but it was not an easy task changing to mode 1 from the supplied mode 2, and installing the update was another nightmare, faulty SD card supplied was the problem it took some time to find out.

Regards

Robert

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

Posted by Dave Bran on 02/01/2017 18:40:56:

I have just given away the only JR Transmitter I have ever owned, to the ex-school club helper (all the way from 11 to 18!) now at York Uni.

They had formed a "Quad" Society just before he arrived and once they knew he'd had flying lessons from me and was passed solo they are getting all fired up about Fixed Wing and Helicopters, so I have donated four ready to go EPP foam planes from Indoor to Parkfly and the Tx.

With ALL my other 35Mhz Tx being Futaba or Multiplex, I was limited on what crystals I could donate. They have one JR capable Tx and two common use single conversion Rx crystals on 72. I have no shortage of Rx I can pass over, its the crystals and in particular the (odd, as I understand they used a different multiplier) JR Tx ones.

If anyone would like to donate to a good cause to widen their scope, please PM me.

PM address i'll send you some Dave

John

[Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator]

Posted by FilmBuff on 02/01/2017 16:51:22:

@BEB
Is it also the job of a moderator to have a certain arrogance and boast about how even with their pension they are better off than most people who are in full-time work?

No its not the job of a moderator but as I have pointed out I am not only a moderator I'm also a forum member - and as such its a perfectly acceptable respoinse to a eronious and unnecessary personal comment from a misguided other member!

BEB

PS And when did I say my current income is only from my pension?

PPS And I have acknowledged that my postion is a lucky one - so not aggrogant I feel.- nor have I made any personal remarks about others positions - unlike them about me.

Edited By Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 02/01/2017 18:53:48

[Piers Bowlan]

Very restrained BEB, in the face of an unprovoked personal attack. Don't forget guys, this is the friendly forum.

[Simon P]

This thread is a bit over the top fellas, from the over egging of JRs pause in hobby related development ('cause that is all it is in fact - read the note on their website) to the personal attacks upon BEB who, I am sure, is capable of defending himself but why the heck should he have to in exchange for expressing his personal opinion

As an XG8 owner reading this thread this morning made me quite upset thinking that they'd halted production but now that I have distilled the facts I am quite alright with the situation. Receivers and transmitters will continue to be made and sold and that's all that really matters. Anyone who doesn't fly JR radio or want one shouldn't give a hoot about this change.

[McG 6969]

Posted by Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 02/01/2017 18:49:30:

Posted by FilmBuff on 02/01/2017 16:51:22:

@BEB
Is it also the job of a moderator to have a certain arrogance and boast about how even with their pension they are better off than most people who are in full-time work?

No its not the job of a moderator but as I have pointed out I am not only a moderator I'm also a forum member - and as such its a perfectly acceptable respoinse to a eronious and unnecessary personal comment from a misguided other member!

BEB

PS And when did I say my current income is only from my pension?

PPS And I have acknowledged that my postion is a lucky one - so not aggrogant I feel.- nor have I made any personal remarks about others positions - unlike them about me.

Edited By Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 02/01/2017 18:53:48

I'm truly convinced BEB is an intelligent and very capable person and I must say that I can agree with his responses, positions and arguments 99% of the time.

But then, I think it must be quite 'hazardous' to be able to carry a 'double cap' as a forum member and being a moderator all together.

I'm convinced that Dave really tries to handle both with the necessary cautions, but then it remains very human to have some commutations between them when appropriate or 'needed'.

In the 'quote' above, BEB answers to FilmBuff at 16.51 and than gets it edited at 18.53... being more than 2 hours later... answering like a 'member' but being able to 'edit' or 'delete' in the position of a moderator is what I call 'hazardous'... Sorry Dave, but you're right of course concerning private things such as personal assets or income.

I really prefer John's attitude, proposing to help Dave Bran with some crystals for the good cause in this JR context...

Just me being what I am regarding unnecessary complications and conflicts.

Cheers

Chris

[Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator]

Thank you for your support chaps - much appreciated.

But perhaps the matter is best closed now and we can be friends and return to the matter in hand which is of course specifically the possible difficulties and plans of JR and possibly on a wider front the development of the Tx market generally.

BEB

[Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator]

Posted by McG 6969 on 02/01/2017 20:04:44:

In the 'quote' above, BEB answers to FilmBuff at 16.51 and than gets it edited at 18.53... being more than 2 hours later... answering like a 'member' but being able to 'edit' or 'delete' in the position of a moderator is what I call 'hazardous'... Sorry Dave, but you're right of course concerning private things such as personal assets or income.

Sorry Chris - just to be accurate and fair - I am afraid you have misread the timings and you are wrong there.

That time of 16:51 was when Film Buff posted not me. If you read the time stamp on my post you will see it was at 18:49:30 (on the top bar) and then edited as you say at 18:53:48 - four minutes later. Such an edit does not use my moderator capability - you, or any member, can edit with that time scale.

BEB

[Dave Wilshere]

I'm not into reading all the posts, but

JR not allowing conversion of DSM-2 radios to DSM-X in Europe is nothing to do with Mac's or JR. Think where DSM-2 came from and understand who distributed JR in the USA...Same people who made supply JR made DSM-2 Rx's scarce. I actually sold the last of our new stock JR 921DSM-2 Rx's just before Xmas.

DMSS is one of the best protocols released into the model market, quality does not die, Powerbox even bought the flawed Weatronics brand. I am very comfortable about the continued supply, they are not moving the production to Malaysia, anyone that can read will already know that most of the stuff has been manufactured there for years (inc the start of Speky stuff! ) Since we are one of the UK's biggest JR suppliers, selling vast numbers of the 28X i'd know what is happening.

The hobby is in decline, drones hold a big part of JR's (and others) struggles, they had a very active helicopter business, profitable from parts sales. Drone fly themselves, have few parts to break and in some cases are very 3-Dable. This has killed model helicopter sales and any business that relied on their sales to stay in profit. Add to that the US situation, where their biggest distributor went, it does not take a genius to work out that times were hard.

[McG 6969]

When I'm wrong, well, I'm just wrong, BEB.

So no probs for me to present my public apologies here.

Nevertheless, I still remain convinced of the difficulties to remain 'totally objective' with your dual commitments, but as I wrote, you're a 'special' committed personality.

Cheers, young man.

Chris

[Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator]

No problem Chris - we all get it wrong sometimes!

A happy new year to you BTW!

BEB

PS Another edit - but again within time and because I missed the word "all" out - important word that!

Edited By Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 02/01/2017 22:08:19

[McG 6969]

... Best Wishes for 2017 to you & your family as well, Dave.

... and I also wished the same 'sparkling' projections to "all"... the visitors of the Bella Ballerina thread.

Maybe you could pay it a visit when you feel like...

Cheers

Chris

[Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator]

Oh I do look in - and very good it is too!

BEB

[Peter Jenkins]

Posted by David Ovenden on 02/01/2017 18:42:58:

Peter, if you use you XG11 on a tray, doesn't that block access to the sliders?

David, I don't use the sliders but I did use the snap roll switch which with the Tx in a tray makes it awkward to operate. I fly aerobatics and used the switch to achieve snap rolls at the time. I got MacGregors to swap the snap roll switch for the Ail D/R switch which put the snap roll switch within easy reach. However, once I'd found out about stick position switches and how to operate them, I've used those to achieve the snap condition and that now covers negative and positive snaps to either left or right - a far better solution than using the snap roll switch.

When holding the XG11 Tx by hand I find it easy enough to operate the sliders as I now use one of the sliders to alter the sensor read out but it is awkward to do when the Tx is in the tray.

Peter

[Peter Jenkins]

Dave Wilshere - thanks for posting with some pukka gen. I hope JR kit continues to evolve as I shall not be changing any time soon. Having said that, I think that the Jeti capability of being able to show electric motor parameters (when using the Jeti Mezon ESC) in graphical form after the flight is an excellent aid but not something I feel strongly enough about to make me want to move away from JR.