Mannyroad Posted April 17, 2017 Share Posted April 17, 2017 I agree re the 'carrying a camera' thinking. If it wasn't for the cameras I doubt the drones would appeal to many. I was quite surprised the other day when i popped into Currys/PCWorld, looking for a small digital camera and saw a row of drones from a small £70 drone right up to a DJI. And they were being sold simply as aerial cameras. I was pretty shocked that there appeared to be no warnings or information about the responsibility an owner must take on board regarding flying these things. It borders on the criminal inmmy opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted April 17, 2017 Share Posted April 17, 2017 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted April 17, 2017 Share Posted April 17, 2017 Have you ever flown a "Drone" bunch of OLD fellas at our field flying 250 racing drones...all learners so no cameras, laugh a minute and no small amount of ability required. Then we have some who're more experienced flying them via goggles or monitor, same thing there all good fun, all flown within the boundaries of our field, no laws broke, no harm done. Bit later we flew our other "Drone" or as some might call them "Spacewalkers Drones are not the problem, some people are. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Colbourne Posted April 17, 2017 Share Posted April 17, 2017 Posted by Basa on 17/04/2017 12:42:22: There is a lot of second hand 'drones' helicopters and aircraft being sold on the market , I recently sold a multi rotor and a helicopter from a car boot sale and both customers wanted them for presents to pass on . How would any future regulation or even safety advise work in these circumstances ? It depends what you choose as a comparison. As far as I know, you don't need to establish a buyer's capability to fly, or even to be licenced for a full-size aircraft they want to buy from you. It may be different if they made it clear they were intending to fly it away from the sale, though. With a shotgun on the other hand, from what I have read, you need to see the buyer's shotgun certificate (all sales must be face to face) and record the transfer with the police. I can't see the Police wanting to record every drone sale or transfer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eflightray Posted April 17, 2017 Share Posted April 17, 2017 Posted by John Privett on 17/04/2017 19:19:21: Posted by Piers Bowlan on 17/04/2017 18:44:40: ...but I do think it a shame that the model flying fraternity have been lumped together with the drone flying brigade by classifying both aircraft as UAVs. This to me seems a bit random as I feel different rules should apply if the aircraft carries a camera. Edited By John Privett on 17/04/2017 19:20:04 But then at one time I had a camera in my vintage Majestic Major. I have also carried cameras in other fixed wing models. Plenty of fixed wing fliers also use cameras in models. As often heard about many things, " It's not the ...... , it's the person in control of it. ". Why not just let the authorities sort out any illegal activities, whether multi-rotor, helicopters, or fixed wing. These threads sound more like, " I don't want one, so no one else should ", rather like the dislike of RTF/ARF models, the dislike of foamie models etc, by some. Lets just enjoy the hobby. Ray. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piers Bowlan Posted April 17, 2017 Share Posted April 17, 2017 Thank you for the clarification John, I will be taking the ANO to bed with me tonight, - well it beats counting sheep! I was really thinking about the proposed new EASA regulations governing UAVs and the requirement for model aircraft to only operate within a club with a proven safety record. Now many people would see this as a good thing - those that are a member of a club that is. I operate model aircraft from my own paddock which presumably will not be permitted in the fullness of time. I also fly gliders from various locations on the South Downs which will also fall foul of these new rules. Model flying has been fortunate in being unfettered by these intrusive new rules for decades but now it seems that is to change as they are now UAVs and so, a danger to society! I know we are told (by BEB mainly) that the plan is to clear airspace below 400ft as the air will soon be full of buzzing Amazon drones flitting hither and thither but perhaps be should wait before this 'brave new world' dawns before we allow our bureaucrats to tie us all up in red tape just so that something can be seen to be done.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Manuel Posted April 17, 2017 Share Posted April 17, 2017 Posted by Piers Bowlan on 17/04/2017 20:23:38: Thank you for the clarification John, I will be taking the ANO to bed with me tonight, - well it beats counting sheep! Yep - ANO is much better than counting sheep for sending you into a deep slumber ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Bran Posted April 18, 2017 Share Posted April 18, 2017 Meanwhile, on a forum not a galaxy far far away, people are happily discussing as a solo person flying two models at once so their camera platform can follow and film their other FPV model in flight. Its been done, video posted, and they are all getting fired up to do likewise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel R Posted April 18, 2017 Share Posted April 18, 2017 As I see it (mainly from other forums), drones are mobile camera platforms and nothing more. People who want one of these are (mostly) not interested one bit in the fact that its a flying thing that you can do flying things with, or if there are laws governing its use, or whether it is dangerous, or if there are clubs for people who like flying things where they can go and fly their flying things, or anything else, they just want awesome video footage RIGHT NOW to post up on youtube. And also drones are new and shiny and this years AMAZING toy. I imagine youtube will reach saturation point with drone footage one day. Then the popularity of drones will wain somewhat. I do realise I'm not adding much, just sharing what I've seen/heard. "people are happily discussing as a solo person flying two models at once so their camera platform can follow and film their other FPV model in flight." It strikes me that I've already watched http://www.modelflying.co.uk/forums/postings.asp?th=126495 i.e. drone footage of RC fixed wing models being flown. Perhaps we're not so very different after all. We (as a group of RC flyers) simply have background with flying models and know what they're capable of and how to operate them without endangering/annoying/etc the general public. Drones are being marketed to folk who don't have this background, and aren't being told about the existing infrastructure and laws and so on, which is really the bigger problem. Education education education. Edited By Nigel R on 18/04/2017 09:24:21 Edited By Nigel R on 18/04/2017 09:24:44 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Christy Posted April 18, 2017 Share Posted April 18, 2017 Personally, I'm an optimist. Drones are simply this year's CB craze. We all thought CB radio was going to kill RC flying in the UK, and for a while it did cause quite a few issues. But the craze passed, and we carried on much as before. I suspect the same will be true of drones. For a few years, their use by the non-modelling public will cause us some grief, but then something new will come along and they will swiftly be forgotten. 27 MHz is nearly as quiet as 35 MHz these days......! -- Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John F Posted April 18, 2017 Share Posted April 18, 2017 It is a shame that people see the only option as distancing themselves from multi rotor machines; seeing them as the source of the issue stating that it is all down to rogue "drone" fliers. All model aircraft are potentially, and equally, applicable in the "rogue" category and education rather than segregation is the answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil 9 Posted April 18, 2017 Share Posted April 18, 2017 As stated before people tend to get into drone flying for very different reasons than fixed wing or helicopter models. Photography is a big one and so is the technical challenge that is more to do with electronics and programing rather than aerodynamics. And for those reasons it is a different hobby to model flying. This means there is a natural distance between the activities although there is still a lot of overlap. The only droned you a likely to attract to the club scene as it stands are the racers the photographers will just not be interested. The concern here that restrictions designed to control dangerous activities using drones in public spaces may have a knock on affect and curtail model flying because of general wording and definitions often used in legislation. So then it is up to the BMFA and the CAA to influence the law makers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted April 18, 2017 Share Posted April 18, 2017 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Bran Posted April 18, 2017 Share Posted April 18, 2017 Re: "people are happily discussing a solo person flying two models at once so their camera platform can follow and film their other FPV model in flight." It strikes me that I've already watched **LINK** i.e. drone footage of RC fixed wing models being flown. Perhaps we're not so very different after all. Errrr, I think you have completely missed the point, firstly that footage you list is not in the UK under UK law, secondly and more importantly the two craft are under the control of TWO pilots, one per craft. See that word SOLO above, well in the case I state it means ONE pilot "controlling" two craft simultaneously, completely reliant on the camera drone's automatic systems and with no possibility of being able to take over in the event of a problem, let alone the legal "small print" of a spotter for every FPV craft. The craft being photographed was being flown FPV, so the solo pilot could not even see the other following camera craft. let alone ensure safety with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John F Posted April 18, 2017 Share Posted April 18, 2017 Not at all David, I wasn't referring to what you wrote but noticing the alarming rate in which people wish to ostracise the Multi Rotor fliers as if they are a different hobby. I think a lot of the feeling on this is down to knee jerk reactions from the press and similar knee jerk reactions from us within the hobby. I don't think the fact that a MR is carrying a camera or not, or any model aircraft, is the issue but a red herring. What we do with the model that are flown is what scares people who are not within the hobby. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudsy Posted April 18, 2017 Share Posted April 18, 2017 Just an thought on this subject, does anyone read a photograph magazine and if so,what information is presented? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted April 18, 2017 Share Posted April 18, 2017 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piers Bowlan Posted April 18, 2017 Share Posted April 18, 2017 John I don't see it as 'people wishing to distance themselves from multi rotor machines' as some kind of M/R apartide. As stated by Phil earlier in a previous post, I cannot see the average 'drone' buyer wishing to join a model flying club let alone take up model flying, its photography that floats their boat not toy planes. I grant you that there will be the odd exception but pie in the sky to think that they will swell our ranks in any significant way. David I can see little to be gained from a leaflet from BMFA, they have no legal authority and it would go straight in the bin I feel. Perhaps an official looking informative document from the Police or CAA might carry more weight but it would have to be mandated, rather like the warning on a cigarette packet. 'Misuse of this drone may seriously affect your civil liberties!' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted April 18, 2017 Share Posted April 18, 2017 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John F Posted April 18, 2017 Share Posted April 18, 2017 When you say that model retailers give a leaflet with a drone purchase, what kind of machine is it that you mean? Every single thing that we all fly is, by definition, a drone. All can be flown irresponsibly, be flown safely, be used for photography, drug deliveries in prisons, all can kill or seriously injure people and potentially bring down full size aircraft if being flown in no fly areas. There is always the "drone code" pdf that the BMFA has already created. Retailers could print them off and issue them, if you could get them onside, but it would be voluntary. You mention that this is for UK based retailers. There are online UK retailers to consider who often operate in a very different way to LMS's, with lockups, separate office and stock locations to get onside. But there are the Worldwide retailers to consider who have a very large market share. If they are all to be targeted then a law needs to be passed that requires retailers, all of them, to present a leaflet. The only problem is that every flying machine can be RTF, ARTF, kit form or parts thereof. Is a leaflet expected to be sent with every propeller, battery, bit of wood, motor and receiver? Whilst it is an endeavour that is worthy and encourages positive vibes, you cannot make people take note and even less to take on board and learn from. Look at uninsured drivers, for example. Everyone knows they should have insurance, many don't care. I know of one person who had not been insured for 5 years before she was caught! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted April 18, 2017 Share Posted April 18, 2017 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted April 18, 2017 Share Posted April 18, 2017 Having flying insurance costs money, smokers pay a heavy tax and can't smoke in many places, advertising's banned, tobacco is a poor comparison. BMFA do's it's bit, leave enforcing the laws to those with the authority to do it. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guvnor Posted April 18, 2017 Share Posted April 18, 2017 Posted by David Mellor on 18/04/2017 14:35:46: Q. What about retailers? A. All should be contacted. It costs them nothing and most would comply if the material is supplied free So who IS going to pay for it? Why should BMFA members effectively subsideise the termially stupid who choose to fly a drone where they shouldn't? The admin, printing and distrubution costs of this would not be cheap... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted April 18, 2017 Share Posted April 18, 2017 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted April 18, 2017 Share Posted April 18, 2017 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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