Flying the wrong way up

[Gemma Jane]

Hi guys, any tips on inverted flight?

Having just got back to model flying yesterday (made a good start when I threw the transmitter instead of the model on the first hand launch, it wasn't too badly broken) I decided I ought to try inverted flight (at a good altitude). Model is a modified Hobbyzone super cub with ailerons. I was OK getting it upside down for a short time, but I'm aiming for an inverted circuit, any tips appreciated.  On a sim I can do it all day, with the model, hmmm not so easy.

[Tim Kearsley]

I would have said that the main things to remember when flying inverted are that elevator works "backwards", i.e. stick up makes the model climb and stick down makes the model dive.  You normally find that a little "up" stick is required to keep the model in level flight.  The ailerons work as normal but of course when banking into a turn you will need to push the elevator stick up (to give the equivalent of  "up" elevator when flying normally) to prevent the model from losing height in the turn.

Tim.

[Alistair Taylor]

Start high up

Elevator is reversed, ailerons are not 

So first try rolling inverted and keep the wings level with ailerons (flying straight and level away from you). Teach your thumb how much elevator you need to stay level.

Then roll inverted, and try a turn by rolling inverted as before but PUSHING the nose round. Remember you can roll upright at any point, and go easy on the throtlle so you can if necessary half-loop out of inverted without snapping the wings or hitting the floor.

Then do a 180 degree turn, then a 270, then a 360. Then you'll be better than me

AlistairT

[simon barr]

Hello Gemma,

Yes, as Tim says the aileron inputs remain the same but the elevator is "reversed" as far as the stick movements are concerened..It is just down to practice to get it right, but it should not take long to gain the confidence needed to do something different that feels un-natural.

As a tip, you are best to roll to inverted and roll back to upright again rather than half loop in and out...if you are too low the half  loop back to upright contacts with the ground...

[Myron Beaumont]

My tip --Just think you're in the cockpit  & tell yourself I'm in this position & I want to do such& such .Thats how I do it anyway

[Gemma Jane]

Thanks guys, thinking about it I was getting it inverted and holding level OK as it flew away from me, but perhaps was letting it get a bit too far away before trying to turn, that was when it was going wrong and I had to recover back up the right way. Rolling it over and trying some turns whilst it is still near me might be the key to progress 

[260 Flyer]

When inverted the bits at the back are reversed but the bits at the front stay the same!

After a period of inverted flying my brain becomes inverted and I have to be very careful that I don't push forward when I need to pull back.

[Myron Beaumont]

Liked I said    Pretend you're in it and talk to yourself so to speak . eg I'm upside down so down is up etc etc    Only my way

[David Ashby - Moderator]

Hi Gemma, well done....

Some models are easier to fly inverted than others. Is there much dihedral on the Cub?

[Gemma Jane]

Not much dihedral on this one David. The stock wing has loads as it was designed for rudder only. I modified it so it is now flat on the under surface. Oddly though when looking at the top surface the chord section is fatter towards the outboard of the wing so some effective dihedral remains. I've ended up with a model that is nice and stable but will roll and turn on the ailerons in a satisfactory way for someone like me who is just begining to explore aerobatics- whether or not its the model or me that is resisting inverted flight remains to be seen

'Liked I said    Pretend you're in it and talk to yourself so to speak . eg I'm upside down so down is up etc etc    Only my way '

Can't work out how to do a quote yet!

I've tried this technique when flying. I've heard it said a lot and tried it when learning to fly egg whisks towards me, it isn't a method that works for me. I tend to favour a number of 'tricks' which keep me orientated. So the 'back bits are reversed and the front bits are the same' when inverted is the sort of trick that will work for me. I use another one when approaching for landing from either side, stick towards the model - model flies away from me, stick away from the model - model flies towards me. I only got it wrong once, OUCH!

It might just be the way my brain works (or fails to), if I have to think of myself in the cockpit to work it out it usually means a session with the glue  I found flying helis towards me impossible until Colin Bliss told me just to sway with the helicopter, it goes to the right the stick goes to the right, it goes away the stick goes away... with that method it clicked in a few sessions when before it seemed impossible.

Thanks to all for the comments, I started out thinking, hmmm can't be that hard to do then found out (once again) that it is, next session I'll have a plan on how to approach it  

[001]

The  mention of  Gemma throwing the transmitter reminded me of the caption competition earlier this year, (or was it last year).

I thought that it was a lot of fun with many very witty entries, is there any chance of another?

[David Ashby - Moderator]

Gemma - good stuff, I've found (often the hard way) that there's no substitute for lots of practice. When landing some people will sort of view the model over their shoulder so they are facing the way the model is flying and can get the sticks right. 

Richard - sounds good - I can run another....just need a suitable piccy though?  

[Tim Kearsley]

For what it's worth Gemma, I found flying straight while inverted came fairly easy - you just remember that up and down are reversed.  I did find though (and still do) that turning while inverted is slightly harder.  I have to fight the natural reaction to "pull back" on the elevator to maintain height and have to consciously "push" the elevator stick to stop the model from diving.  As someone said earlier, plenty of height is a good idea when practising this!!

Best of luck anyway.

Tim.

[Gemma Jane]

Hi Tim, that would fit with what was going wrong, as soon as I was turning the nose would 'drop' and I had to recover. Next time I'll just try some turns and see if pushing like made gets it round, bit wndy here today for foamies perhaps some good weather for the weekend is in order 

PS reading back through appologies to Myron if it sounds like I didn't appreciate your tip, for me I found it didn't work with getting orientation when my little 'tricks' did, for someone else reading this thread it might be just what they were looking for.

[Jonathan Lewzey]

It may have been mentioned before, but perhaps the best method of practising inverted is a simulator? It doesn't matter how many models you break and you will soon find inverted as natural as normal flight. If you haven't already got a sim, FMS is free to download, or you can get the software with a cheap USB tx from als hobbies

[Jonathan Lewzey]

oh, you already said you could do it on the sim in you original post. Well if you can do it on the sim, you can do it in reality. Try a different model.

[BB]

Main thing I found Gemma, was to remember to 'push up' on elevator a tad to keep the nose level immediatley after the roll or loop.   If anything over correct it, then ease the stick back to just above centre (watch the nose).   I found with my cub it was best to 'fall' into an outside loop, (with altitude).  Avoid any rudder input if you can. The Supercub loves to turn on the rudder as you know.   You'l be doing low passes and fig O' eights before you know it.   Use a neck strap with your TX.  lol

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[Gemma Jane]

It's a lump of foam Eric so can't be the ribs in reverse order! Your right it never ever tip stalls, the stall is incredibly benign, part of the reason I love this little model.