John Roberts 16 Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 Anyone out here built the Ripmax Bolero. Looks a great plane and build quickly and easily, but no reviews or build logs to be found. I know RCM&E did a review few months back but was the electric version. I have built one to the manual with a ASP .52 up front. When balancing found I had to add nearly 200g of lead up front. Is this normal? seems an awful lot of additional weight. Would be great to hear from any others out there with this plane, your builds, logs, flying etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel R Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 Don't own one but interested in it - keep us posted with how it goes. What's the all up weight minus fuel? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denis Watkins Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 You can see that the Bolero has such a long moment arm With such big tail surfaces That it will need weight upfront Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon H Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 is it my imagination or is the bolero just an old bossanova in new colours? If it is that means all the info out there on the older model will still apply. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveyP Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 They do look the same except the Bolero rudder is bigger and more square. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel R Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 "That it will need weight upfront" Denis, I note the Ripmax site lists up to a 90 FS for power. I would guess it balances ok with a weightier powerplant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Roberts 16 Posted October 13, 2017 Author Share Posted October 13, 2017 Nigel R mine coming in 3130 grams withe the ASP .52 includes the 4.8 v 2300 Nimh battery also a HKing on board glow system. Agree it does look identical to the Bossanova just a different colour scheme. Interesting if anyone has had both and and can identify any major differences if it is remodelled. Don't mind because the Bossanova gets some good reviews. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 Hype, Wildcard, etc all pretty similar, lightly built so you often manage to balance without lead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Roberts 16 Posted October 13, 2017 Author Share Posted October 13, 2017 I've got a spare ASP.60 2'stroke that would almost make up the weight deficit at the front, not sure it would fit the cowl the though, also the recommended Engine size is .40 - .55 2 stroke so the .60 would be overpowered, few sites state in big bright red letters the Bolero is not a speed plane should not be flown fast as it will cause structural damage. So a little wary of putting in a larger engine in at this stage, unless some has tried it successfully. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 I used 4 strokes in the ones I've had, fit inverted in the cowls nicely, battery in tank bay if needed for c.g, lot of fun, teach you bad habits though because they're so forgiving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denis Watkins Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 .40 - .46 power is right John, as the .55 is a .46 size motor dimensionally. The broad wing chord and large surfaces are not as you say for a speed machine, as anything but perfect fittings Will result in flutter, and bits falling off. This is one time to put the .60 on something else, as the low speed handling would be lost with the excess forward lump of the .60 Try the .52 on an 11 x 6 and get to know the plane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel R Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 "coming in 3130 grams withe the ASP .52 includes the 4.8 v 2300 Nimh battery also a HKing on board glow system" thanks John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denis Watkins Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 Apologies guys but heavy lightweights are no fun. Yours is a perfect set up Nigel. A buddy at the field stuck a .70 4 stroke on his Wot 4 and immediately transformed it, loosing all the low speed handling, and the quicker landings on the Wot 4 landing gear resulted in a few new undersides. I digress, our flying style gives us choices, and the Bolero is a beauty. A modern .46/.52 4s does some and more of what we once knew of .60s, and the extra half pound of .90 can be a step backwards with a lightweight aerobatic All with respect, and looking forward to your successful report Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Benn 1 Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 I did see a review on a website I can't remember/find again. A guy said they had three Boleros in his club and they all look and fly beautifully but two had the Horizontal stab fail in flight - the third was grounded for strengthening! Have a look at the Saitos 82/91FS engines. They weigh about the same as a 2St with perhaps a nicer power band for this type of model. This YT vid shows a guy with a Saito100 on his https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZudjvDci4A Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Roberts 16 Posted November 20, 2017 Author Share Posted November 20, 2017 Ok all thanks for the advice etc regarding engine size. Drawing a blank on this Ripmax Bolero Decided to stick with the original recommended engine size as you all recommended, and fitted the ASP .52 2 stroke. Well within its recommended .40 - 55 stroke range. Have since found it actually needed an additional 500g (a whole 1lb) of lead up front bolted to the engine mount to balance as per instructions and the radio battery is also against the front bulkhead. Seems very very excessive. Have written to Ripmax regarding the IC / Glow engine fit for the Bolero and balancing, heard absolutely nothing back at all................ Now stuck with a very heavy plane and somewhat reluctant to even try a maiden weighing in at 3500g and states it should be 2900g for glow????? will be a heavy over weight handful, not what i bought it for, Very frustrating does not meet the specifications as advertised. Cant find any build logs, videos photos, nothing online about the Bolero with a Glow engine fit. Would appreciate any pics or advice from any Bossanova IC / Glow pilots if they had the same issues or is just the Bolero that doesn't meet specification. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denis Watkins Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 Look at this picture John, if that model weighs 6.5lbs, then that tail weighs 1/2lb Way out at the rear, those tailfeathers will need 1lb up front I hope the C of G somehow arrives along that wing just 1" above the name Bolero? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Roberts 16 Posted November 20, 2017 Author Share Posted November 20, 2017 Thanks Denis your building my confidence. Yes my CofG is at 110mm from Root LE (the plan shows 100-120) Its just the massive extra weight issue with all that lead, not encountered anything like it before, and of course its increased wing loading (mass) and the effect it will have on flying eg greater speed. Some dimensions: Wing Area = Root chord 18 inch - Tip chord 13.5 inch - Span 59inch Wing Area 936 sq inch (6.5 ft Sq) Advertised: 6.4 lb (102 oz) this give a wing loading of 15.69 oz per foot Sq = Wing Cube load 6.2 (3D capable) Mine coming in at 7lb 11oz (123 oz) giving a wing loading of 18.9 oz per ft Sq = Wing Cube load 7.4 (Gen Sport Scale) Mathematically it looks like it will fly, just not as slow or have as much vertical, if any 3D performance. Guess i will just have to bite the bullet wait for a calmer day before the maiden now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Dunne Posted November 22, 2017 Share Posted November 22, 2017 Just to add - we have two club members with Boleros, one an ace aerobatic flyer and one a keen and very good sport flyer. Both have moved their cg back to 140mm to improve the flying - they now describe them as excellent! My own is nearing completion, and is currently at 140mm without lead... We will see... Steve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denis Watkins Posted November 22, 2017 Share Posted November 22, 2017 Oh heck John, I know it is too late but have noticed in the manual and Bolero pics that the elevator and rudder servo mounts vary. The later Bolero shows 2 servos mounted in the tail, which does add to your C of G woes Yet other Bolero pics show the push rods exiting the model at the rear, for forward servo mounting ? This is a mystery, as yes, rear mount servos are more positive due to short push rods But others seen to have gone for push pull in some cases, and this does reduce nose weight. Am still enquiring for an answer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Roberts 16 Posted November 22, 2017 Author Share Posted November 22, 2017 Steve that sounds a little more encouraging could be the forward CofG is airing on the manufacturers safe and cautious side for first flights. 140mm would be more achievable with much less lead upfront. Great too hear or see the final product Steve, eg engine size weight and many balancing you needed. Denis mine has just the one rear mounted elevator servo 55g with the shorter and more positive action push rods. I did think of fitting a closed loop elevator system to lighten the the tail end. This is still an option just figuring out how to fit it in, the servo bay is a bit tight width wise, without some major rejigging of the existing plates and formers. Must admit I didn’t realise there were different versions out there, unless it’s what others have done themselves to improve. Just wish the manufacturers had been a little more detailed and descriptive in here manual regarding the IC version of what looks like a great plane, and responded to email help requests. Every line tells a story, thanks chaps...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Dunne Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 Maiden yesterday - hardly any trim needed from take-off! Five excellent flights on a very cold day. The model weighs 2956 grams (6lb 10oz) with no ballast other than a dastardly pilot (I don't like empty cockpits!). The LiFe battery is stored underneath the fuel tank, everything else positioned as supplied. This gave a cg at 135mm, which seemed perfect in the flight tests. Thanks to Phil for his Bolero experience on this! The engine is a Saito FS82b, with an APC 14x6 prop. Flies vertically out of sight - all the power it needs. Presumably due to the thick wing, the model slows up rapidly when power is cut - surprised me on the first few touch & goes, but this makes power-on landings a breeze. Knife-edge flight needed a rudder mix of 8% down elevator, and my first (not very good) tries at prop-hanging indicated no detrimental tendencies. All the staggers were pilot-induced . This looks like becoming a regular go-to model. Steve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Roberts 16 Posted November 26, 2017 Author Share Posted November 26, 2017 Steve, thats brilliant news. Where did you have your elevator servo mounted in the end ? was it tail end or up front ? Thats quite a rearward CofG, 15mm behind the max recommended rear position. Guess your club colleagues have the experience with this to model to advise though. Going to shave some lead of mine now.......push that CofG back a bit at least to the 120- 130 point possibly more. Thanks for the update, really appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Dunne Posted November 26, 2017 Share Posted November 26, 2017 Hi John, The elevator was at the back - as per design. The CG is not as rearward as you think - I always do a calculation from Gordon Whitehead's 1980 book "RC Scale Aircraft", which has several formulae to help scale modellers determine where is a safe, conservative cg for scale designs. The formula gave 125mm for the Bolero, so 135mm to make it more aerobatic was a fair guess. In the air, inverted flight needed just a smidge of push-elevator for level flight... As I said before, mine is the third Bolero to fly recently at the club, and I suspect that there will be more . Steve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Dunne Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 As forecast, we are now up to five Boleros, two electric and three glow (all Saito 82). The plane gets better every time I fly it! One note - it could do with a bigger tank for the Saito engines... Steve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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