Coming back after 50 years: bit lost

[911hillclimber]

Hello to everyone on here.

I'm looking to re-kindle my aero modelling years now I'm just retired and have dug out various bits and bobs from the spare bedroom etc as you do..

I left the hobby when I discovered cycling and my last plane was control line in the local park in around 1966, just to set the scene.

My interest is vintage style planes and RC and along the way have an old plane 9picture) and one built, not covered or 'RC'd' Super Scorpion by Ben Buckle. My plan is to train on the already built plane first.

It came to me with OS diesel and will be converted to electric.

I'm in the West midlands, so blessed with good model shops and a private flying field used by a local Club.

With some leaving work money I have a modern RC kit, Spektrum DC6, Futaba servo's and a new motor, Tornado Thumper 4240/10 and some new knives and blades!

Once the engine is in I will need some help sorting the RC side out, hence joining this forum before joining the club locally and getting some hands-on flying help.

My main interest is racing cars, but looking forward to some lazy sunny calm days mid week with these plans.

[url=https://postimages.org/][img]https://s18.postimg.org/xnnlpp7hl/P1060515.jpg[/img][/url]

[911hillclimber]

[Tim Ballinger]

Welcome. I did the same just over a year ago. Refurbished an old powered glider to start, bought an ARTF to get the flying skills back and am now enjoying building and flying whenever I can.

Just ask for help and folks on this forum will be only too glad to help . Not too late to join the 2018 mass build if you fancy it. Some of the models chosen specifically to ease in new modellers to the process of building from plans.

Tim

[911hillclimber]

Thanks Tim.

I'll get this one going first as it seems robust. Enough to take some hard landings!

[Josip Vrandecic -Mes]

G/e ,911hc , By reading your rebound post, it seem we are a ''brothers in arms'' . I also see your desk and the model on the worktable in very neat atmosphere. I wish you a nice return, Marry Christmas and New Year.

Greeting from Adriatic Sea.

[911hillclimber]

i must make sure I tidy the bench before any more pictures! Thank you for your kind words from so far away.

[Dave from the future]

How big is the Super Scorpion? I'm just wondering as that seems a really big motor for a vintage model. My Junior 60 has a motor of half that power and still takes off at half throttle. Vintage models only need about 50w/lb.

[Piers Bowlan]

Welcome from me hillclimber. This is the Thumper 4240/10 and according to the spec is a 540W motor, which is 3/4 of a HP (equivalent to a 40 FS engine). The Ben Buckle Super Scorpion does recommend a 30-40 four stroke but it does also say 'don't over power'. Perhaps you could ask George Worley at 4Max and see what he would recommend. Incidentally, what diesel engine did the model come with?

You could also consider joining the MFC you mentioned as there is probably someone there flying a similar vintage style model who would be willing to help with the model set up.

Edited By Piers Bowlan on 03/01/2018 05:07:36

[David Davis]

I had a Super Scorpion with an OS 40 FS Surpass. I didn't think that it was over-powered.

[Trevor Crook]

One of the advantages of electric power is that, within certain limits, you can tailor the maximum power the motor draws using prop selection. A wattmeter will be a very useful purchase. When the powertrain is installed, different props can be tried to give the power you need. I don't fly "vintage" models myself, but 50-70 watts per pound of model weight sounds about right. Just take great care when doing the measurements, with the model restrained and fingers well clear.

Welcome back to the hobby.

[911hillclimber]

Thank you all, this is why I'm on this forum! The very young lad in the model shop did not know what a Super Scorpion was, so sold me this motor that looks large in the yellow plan. The plane came to me with an Enya 0.19 glow. I really want to go electric at this stage.

I doubt these motors have a common mounting, so best to get another smaller engine at this stage.

The span of the yellow plane is 42 inches, chord is 8 inches, so any guidance is welcome.

The Scorpian is 66 inches. A artf model to train on is a great idea!

[David Davis]

The yellow model looks very like a Peter Russel STOL to me.

[Denis Watkins]

Be sure to locate the wing with a dowel, or notch

As with banded high wingers, you can finish up re-trimming after every battery change,

If the wing is not located and aligned the same way every time.

[TJ Alexander]

Hi Hillclimber! I'm also in the West Midlands (and also a cyclist ).

I'm near Kidderminster, so hope you're near me, and I get to meet you!

Welcome here, by the way.

[Dai Fledermaus]

I don't want to dampen your enthusiasm in any way, but having recently returned to the hobby in the same way as you have and as someone who is still learning to fly competently, I wonder if a vintage type like the Scorpion or any other vintage model is your best option.

I understand their appeal, but these classic designs are essentially free flight jobs designed to climb under power. They generally have a light wing loading and together with a flat bottom wing tend to balloon up as you turn into the wind. The high lift also makes it difficult to penetrate the wind. In a suitable breeze, they can even be made to fly backwards. You say that you are looking forward to some "lazy sunny calm days", but in recent years there haven't been many of those. You might find that waiting for that elusive calm sunny day a bit frustrating.

I'm just concerned that you may be cutting down on your options and that you might be better off learning on something like a Ben Buckle Super 60 - as you like classic designs, or the smaller Mini Super. With a heavier wing loading, both will penetrate the wind better and both are easily converted to electric power. You'll find lots of help and information on this Forum about converting both.

Edited By Dai Fledermaus on 03/01/2018 15:41:39

[911hillclimber]

Thanks for all this advice, I thought this forum would be quiet, but I was wrong.

The yellow plane was bought from a work friend just before I left that place in 1989, I have no idea of it's origin, but it is nicely made and has some good flying hours on it.

The wing is not located at all, just the bands and a slight rib in the front to set the position, but no dowels. I will change that. The tail is much the same...

The Super Scorpion I built maybe 15 years ago, Ben Buckle kit and all built as a frame, no covering or radio, built for a new PAW 19 diesel. It will be electric when done.

I love these older designs and their slow flying (from the Youtube's I've watched).

The Yellow plane seems a bit smaller than a Junior 60 and those I've seen at Weston Park on various Father's Day events, so what would such a plane use for an electric motor and what batteries? I also have no idea where the C0fG should be back from the leading edge. (thinking of battery weight and location)

 

I'm going to have a go at my 'come-back' using the Yellow Plane and beg/steal/borrow another pilot to help me, might even be Alex at his flying field close to Alverly!

Edited By 911hillclimber on 03/01/2018 16:37:49

[911hillclimber]

[911hillclimber]

Ok, from looking at some Junior 60 electrification threads on he net, the best 'fit' I can find for a motor is;

AXI 2814/20

40 amp esc

LiPo 2100 mAh batteries.

The Jnr 60 is a 60" span, my Yellow lane is 42, but I hope the motor can have a smaller prop to ease the power.

Unless anyone thinks this is madness, I'm off to Penn models to get the parts.

My current mptor is 4240/10: 60a esc: 3-7 LiPo cells, so this seems all about 50% of the big motor Penn sold me 3 years ago for the Scorpion.

At this rate putting the ENYA or PAW motor in is tempting!

[Piers Bowlan]

For the Yellow plane, personally I would try one of these with one of these, some of these, or 2200mAh for longer flight times, at the expense of more weight. Also some of these.

Just my 2p worth.

 

Edited By Piers Bowlan on 04/01/2018 16:35:48

[Devcon1]

Welcome aboard, looks like you're on the right path to enjoying yourself.

If it helps I've been doing it for nearly 50 years and still get lost occasionally.

[Piers Bowlan]

You will of course need a propeller too so a 9X5 or 6 would be good with this set up on a 3s LiPo and hopefully produce about 180W-200W perhaps? Get one of these too while you are at it as it will help you get the choice of propeller right and experiment with different brands-APC are good but make sure you are buying an E prop (obviously) It will save you money in the long run. Don't forget some of these too!

Edited By Piers Bowlan on 04/01/2018 17:07:06

[911hillclimber]

Thank you Piers for that info and thanks Dev for the welcome.

This is not my first hobby/interest, and I have a lot to learn.

All those parts look good and I will get them. I don't trust the dis-interested young man I met 3 years ago in the model shop as I parted with £34 for the motor alone...so that range of parts and 3 servos for this plane is a good cost, only about $45 so about £45 landed.

I want to get this plane ready to fly by the end of Feb and no motor is holding me back, I'm very impatient!

I looked at the frame of the Super Scorpion today in the attic. It is a large plane! I'll keep this big motor incase I need it for that plane.

[Piers Bowlan]

My suggestions comes with a 'health warning' hillclimber, it is just my best guess, - input from other forumites welcome! (anyone round here got eCalc?) As David said, your 'yellow model' looks like a Peter Russell's STOL and probably weighed 3.5-3.75 lbs with the engine, (according to RC groups). As the model has a good wing area and consequently low wing loading, 200W should be enough. If not, then this may be a better bet, with a slightly higher kv will produce about 250W which equates to about 70W per lbs with your model, if the weight estimate is correct. I have dug out one of these motors from my collection so I will test it later today with various props and let you know how it performs.

If you weigh your yellow model as is, we can estimate the all up weight.

I think your 'Thumper' motor should be fine for your Super Scorpion with the right prop. 

Edited By Piers Bowlan on 05/01/2018 05:29:21

[911hillclimber]

Understand Piers, my risk!

I do not know the characteristics of the electric motor, ie, can you 'throttle' them right back for flying or do they need to run at full speed. Sure I've read that they don't like running at low rpm for long.

Just weighed the Stol and with ENYA and all RC it comes in at 2Lb 12oz. (less fuel weight)

John, who I bought it off, said it was light.

Span is 42" and the chord is 9" so wing area of 378 sq", so 0.114 oz/sq"

[Denis Watkins]

Hi guys

I build, and fly this size, probably 6 at the moment, half electric, others are I/C .15 - .21 motors.

1st point, this size are not trainers

They are lightweight yes

But small can be more "twitchy" if you get my meaning.

In a nutshell, they can be carried in the car to the field built up

They are a lot of fun to fly and master

They are not the best trainer, but can fly all manner of styles, fast and slow