P51 forced landing Duxford 2017

[Jon H]

Cockpit video and pilot interview. Its all just been published and makes for interesting viewing

[Piers Bowlan]

Thanks for that Jon, like you say, very interesting indeed. Thanks to Mark's cool head, experience and training he got away with it, how many warbird pilots have not been so fortunate following an engine failure?

[Scott Edwards 2]

Cheers Jon, very interesting. Nice quote in there, "Fly the aircraft as far as possible into the crash". I know that feeling well 😱

[Josip Vrandecic -Mes]

Appreciate Jon , After talking to these two smart people and I feel enlightened

[Jon H]

There are also lessons in it for us as well. He knew he wasn't going to make the field so made other choices. He brought the gear up, kept the aircraft flying until the last moment and didn't slow it down. How many models have spun in from a dead stick that was drawn out in an attempt to make the field?

[Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator]

Yeap, interesting video - and asyou say some lessons for us in there too.

BEB

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

Posted by Jon - Laser Engines on 19/05/2018 10:09:44:

There are also lessons in it for us as well. He knew he wasn't going to make the field so made other choices. He brought the gear up, kept the aircraft flying until the last moment and didn't slow it down. How many models have spun in from a dead stick that was drawn out in an attempt to make the field?

I certainly agree. Repairing a model damaged by a ground loop or nose over is usually far easier than one which has spun in from 50 feet. I would always prefer to land wheels up - even if only to minimise potential undercarriage damage - the lumps and bumps off field are typically 5 or 6 times bigger as far as a model is concerned! Airframe damage from the landing energy is usually far less than would occur in a full size aircraft and will probably involve a few scratches unless you hit something solid.

[Devcon1]

A fascinating and informative watch. Interesting to note how he forces himself to do spin recovery and deadsticks on a routine basis, prepare for the worst.

[Jon H]

Posted by Martin Harris on 19/05/2018 21:02:30:

I would always prefer to land wheels up - even if only to minimise potential undercarriage damage

Absolutely. If I get an engine problem with anything that has retracts I keep them up until I know 100% that I can make the strip.

Watching the video last night I was shocked by the sink he got as he swung onto final. The whole situation deteriorated in a matter of seconds and there really was no margin for indecisive action.

[Peter Jenkins]

Thanks for posting that link Jon. Another take away is that he recommends "training for the difficult things". It's easy to fall into the habit of doing the stuff you find easy but what will catch you out is when things get difficult. You don't have much time to learn then.

[MattyB]

Posted by Peter Jenkins on 20/05/2018 00:50:14:

Thanks for posting that link Jon. Another take away is that he recommends "training for the difficult things". It's easy to fall into the habit of doing the stuff you find easy but what will catch you out is when things get difficult. You don't have much time to learn then.

This is the crucial difference between full size and model aviation training. When I learnt to glide I spent the first 5-10 flights learning to fly the aeroplane, then the next 30-40 to solo on dealing with issues, be they cable breaks, spin recovery or simple errors judgement through the circuit that put you in different and unexpected positions. Very few model instructors teach that way - we generally focus on how to fly well to avoid the difficult situation where decision making is hard, not how to deal with it when it happens. I am a far, far better model pilot since I learnt full size as a result.

[Tom Thomas]

Full size is really not comparable when dealing with models.

The dynamics are similar but come on it's like comparing a jacknifing truck to a troubled indoor model.

Yes wheels up is best but obvious?

you can't compare a full size aircraft in difficulty to a model I don't care what you say.

Both fly, both have the laws of physics to contend with, but models are feather weight compared to the full size and as such are so much simpler.... ( not to mention the mortality rates)

We naturally connect our hobby to full size aviation as it's in our blood. And we know that 80 percent of our hobby mirrors full size, but please? Trying to compare full size dynamics in emergency situations? To our light weight Models? I don't see it.

[Trevor]

I agree with what MattyB says. As an instructor I have to admit that we don't routinely train for emergency situations. In fact, I know a few flyers who have passed their A test but would have difficulty coping with even a slightly out of trim model. However, these 'emergencies' tend to arise more frequently in model flying than in the full size world so arguably we are less in need of annual practice drills!

Trevor

[Jon H]

I agree with Matty as well. I flew gliders while at uni and cable breaks were a major focus. Not enough model pilots consider/plan for what they are going to do if it all goes pear shaped.

When teaching model flying to do generally teach the avoidance method so students never let the issue develop so far as you need a great deal of sorting out. However, I do also show them what happens and put them in a position for them to sort out.

Currently one of my students is flying with his ailerons disabled. This helps should they fail for some reason, and helps understand/use the rudder when they are working