Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator Posted August 22, 2018 Author Share Posted August 22, 2018 Yes, that's true Peter, and you have to wait about an hour for the link to get back in! Maybe they assume we have a longer attention span than 30 min! BEB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Gilder Posted August 22, 2018 Share Posted August 22, 2018 I'm just sat wondering where the police officers are going to come from in order to track, locate and enforce these regulations / laws!? I'm all for the "idiot users" to be grounded and dealt with accordingly, but fail to actually see how this will be enforced! Police forces are already stretched almost to breaking point! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iqon Posted August 22, 2018 Share Posted August 22, 2018 we can stretch them even further Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Bott - Moderator Posted August 22, 2018 Share Posted August 22, 2018 You're right DG but it will be us law abiding citizens who abide by any new rules or systems. So we'd better put in some effort here just in case that makes a difference in our favour.I'm up to Q35, using BMFA guidance notes. I've saved, ready for another "thrilling" installment tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator Posted August 23, 2018 Author Share Posted August 23, 2018 Guys, please read te OP, fascinatng as questions of enforcement and the rights and wrongs of all this may be, it is not the topic of this thread! Let's focus on supporting each other to complete this consultation in the best interests of our hobby. Thanks BEB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin 216 Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 Completed the survey yesterday, must admit it was like wading through treacle. I don't think it will make any difference what I think, I can only hope the BMFA and LMA have some influence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyh Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 done. a bit of a magnificent octopus, as Baldrick might say. I pity the poor person who has to wade through all the submissions! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Whittaker Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 I believe the reason why this is a set of click 'yes', 'no' or 'don't know' questions is so that the top level analysis will be automated. The computer will calculate numbers/percentages of votes for each question. For example, if the automatic analysis shows that 90% of responders agree that the minimum age of a drone operator should be 18, then that will be the decision and no-one will dig any deeper. On the other hand, if the majority answer 'no' to that question - rejecting the government proposal - then I expect someone will be given the job of extracting the reasons given by those who voted 'no' and putting them into a one page summary to feedback to the rulemakers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator Posted August 23, 2018 Author Share Posted August 23, 2018 Great stuff Kevin. You raise an interesting point about our influence as individuals, but its not really about what we think as individuals. Yes, as one person we count very little. But BMFA et al are going in to bat on our behalf and they will want to say "We represent the views of 30,000 aeromodellers who are right behind is" and the powers that be will reply "Oh yes, where's your evidence for that then?" Now, if only 100 or so of us bother to take part in the consultation then the answer from the BMFA is silence really isn't it? We will have effectively "pulled the rug out" from beneath our our representatives. But even if just 5000 of us respond that's impressive for a government consultation - and we back up those negotiating on our behalf. Also, rest assured of one thing, all the commercial operators, BALPA, the airlines the airport operators etc., none of them will pass up on the chance to get their views across - views which are not necessarily in our best interests. If we want to abandon the field to them - fine, we just need to do nothing. But if we want our say - in numbers - then this is our chance. BEB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Christy Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 I hope I'm wrong - and please don't take this as an excuse not to bother - but I have a feeling that this is just a box ticking exercise by the powers-that-be. I remember years ago, the company I worked for carried out a "consultation" with its employees, as required by its agreement with the union, and then completely ignored the result. They had complied with the agreement by carrying out a consultation that they had no intention of considering. (They ended up in severe financial difficulties not long after!) I do believe that the CAA are "on side", but they will be constrained by whatever instructions they receive from ill-informed politicians. As I pointed out earlier, if the user interface of this consultation (never mind the repetitive and rambling questions) is an example of government digital prowess, then its not just modelling - we're all doomed! -- Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator Posted August 23, 2018 Author Share Posted August 23, 2018 Posted by Cliff Whittaker on 23/08/2018 08:54:18: I believe the reason why this is a set of click 'yes', 'no' or 'don't know' questions is so that the top level analysis will be automated. The computer will calculate numbers/percentages of votes for each question. For example, if the automatic analysis shows that 90% of responders agree that the minimum age of a drone operator should be 18, then that will be the decision and no-one will dig any deeper. On the other hand, if the majority answer 'no' to that question - rejecting the government proposal - then I expect someone will be given the job of extracting the reasons given by those who voted 'no' and putting them into a one page summary to feedback to the rulemakers. Yeap, I absolutely agree Cliff. But, as you say, reasons may still l have some impact. BEB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JOHN MOSLEY 2 Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 Two sessions to complete, they don't make it easy do they. Hope some computer reads it. Edited By JOHN MOSLEY 2 on 23/08/2018 09:26:53 Edited By JOHN MOSLEY 2 on 23/08/2018 09:27:11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuban8 Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 Just been through the form and TBH as a model aircraft flyer using a club site, and not a drone operator, most of my answers would have to be 'don't know'. No point in me submitting the form. I'm looking for our national organisations to make informed arguments against us being sucked down into the drone 'mire' and in that they have my full support. Edited By Cuban8 on 23/08/2018 09:50:38 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator Posted August 23, 2018 Author Share Posted August 23, 2018 our representives have said that the best way to support them Cuban is to complete the form!Use the BMFA crib sheet Chris linked to on page one, all you need is there. Come on chaps, fingers out.BEBEdited By Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 23/08/2018 09:55:53Edited By Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 23/08/2018 09:56:34 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FilmBuff Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 Some modellers are a funny lot! Moan that their voice is not heard - and when they get the chance - want to defer to the BMFA or can't be bothered to fill in some of the form... Interesting to read the BMFA response. Seems pretty sound to me. And I learnt something. Never knew that you could fly a hang glider or motorised para-glider at 14 years old. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wright Stuff Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 Well, I for one wasn't aware that either the response form or the crib sheet existed until BEB pointed them out in this thread. Perhaps it won't make a difference. But it might. I don't see we have anything to lose by filling it in. They wouldn't need analytical software, they can see the crib sheet on the BMFA website just as we can. Pretty sure offering guidance with filling in forms is standard practice - it's not an exam. As long as they don't ask people to lie, I'm pretty sure there is no problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator Posted August 23, 2018 Author Share Posted August 23, 2018 Posted by Ikura on 23/08/2018 10:12:52: BEB, this forum is a microscopic sample of the UK model flying population and it is obvious that only those who feel passionate about what is happening are going to bother responding to the consultation. Threads like this are pointless. Just let people do what they want. Using the BMFA crib sheet is just going to tell those who may or may not look at the responses that we all used the BMFA crib sheet to answer the questions. That is not the brightest idea and analytical software will pick it up in a flash. The same thing is flaggedd up with exam answers. To be honest, non of this will make a jot of difference. The powers that be will do whatever they want, just as they always have. I wish I was as happy as you! The thread is not pointless. Yes you can sit back and do nothing if you want - but don't come whinging later when it doesn't come out as you want! Some of us care about this, some of us still believe is democracy! And to be fair the EASA consultation worked - as you'd know if you read the original proposals and compared them with what came out after the consultation - we suceeded in getting soe of the more crazy and extreme notions sidelined. You ignore it if you want - but let others participate. You might owe them something at the end if you are still flying within basically the same framework as now! Also, if you read my posts you would see that I didn't simply say copy the BMFA crib sheet - I explicitly said to put it in your own words, which matches the advice of BMFA - or maybe you think they are wasting their time as well?. BEB PS Well said Film Buff and TWS! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Cotsford Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 Posted by The Wright Stuff on 23/08/2018 10:41:39: Well, I for one wasn't aware that either the response form or the crib sheet existed until BEB pointed them out in this thread. Perhaps it won't make a difference. But it might. I don't see we have anything to lose by filling it in. They wouldn't need analytical software, they can see the crib sheet on the BMFA website just as we can. Pretty sure offering guidance with filling in forms is standard practice - it's not an exam. As long as they don't ask people to lie, I'm pretty sure there is no problem. +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuban8 Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 Posted by FilmBuff on 23/08/2018 10:11:56: Some modellers are a funny lot! Moan that their voice is not heard - and when they get the chance - want to defer to the BMFA or can't be bothered to fill in some of the form... Interesting to read the BMFA response. Seems pretty sound to me. And I learnt something. Never knew that you could fly a hang glider or motorised para-glider at 14 years old. Hang on a minute............if we feel unable to fill a form in because we don't feel confident to give answers that reflect our current knowledge, opinion or self interest on what is after all a complex and convoluted subject - I don't view that as being 'funny' or lazy. Yes, I defer to the experts at the BMFA et al, whom I hope have a clear grasp of what the membership wants, not least through formums such as ours inhabited by so many 'keyboard warriors' (BMFA's description, which I thought was rather rude). There's more than one way to skin a cat, so if deferring to the BMFA position means filling out the form from a crib sheet, then I'll do just that. How many other members will bother or even be aware of what's going on is anyone's guess. BMFA and its membership communications is whole different subject for another day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 Haven't we written enough digs at each other on this topic over the last few years ? give it a rest folks, fill the form in or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator Posted August 23, 2018 Author Share Posted August 23, 2018 Agreed! BEB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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