Local Model Shops

[Dave Hess]

I'd like to support local model shops, but my nearest three are each nearly an hour away in different directions. Anyway, I decided to visit each of them.

The first one was more like a warehouse. There wasn't much to have a mooch around because their large stock was separated from public access by a large counter. I had gone there with the intention of buying a Ripmax Bolero, but when I got there, I couldn't remember the name because I have memory problems. Anyway, I described the plane as a largish low wing 3D plane that was blue and white and I gave its price as £129. The guy looked in his catalogue and said that they didn't have anything like that. I asked to look at the catalogue and found it in seconds. He then went and got it and plopped it on the counter. I asked about the electrical stuff I needed, but he more or less said, "Choose stuff from the catalogue", but I had no idea exactly what I needed, so I left it for another day. He didn't seem bothered.

Shop no.2 was easier. I arrived at the shop to find a notice on the gate, "Closed for two weeks holiday". Two hours and two gallons of petrol wasted.

Shop no.3 today was also disappointing. I went in to find one assistant on his mobile phone and the other talking to someone who wasn't buying anything, so i had to wait a couple of minutes before the one talking to the guy felt embarrassed enough to break away and help me. I needed three propellers and some cyno. Bear in mind that I've spent about £1500 on this hobby during the last month, and I'll probably spend as much again in the near future if somebody can convince me what to buy, so I had an open mind about whether I was going to come back with an armful of boxes.

They didn't have two of the propellers i needed, so I came away with one propeller and the cyno, there was no attempt to engage me in any sort of conversation or find out the sort of thing I might be interested in. Cash rich guys like me with no need to work and no wife or kids just want to get out of the house and talk to people. Maybe that's why the other guy was in the shop.

I was thinking something like this;

"Hello, what sort of planes do you fly that needs those propellers?"

"I fly mainly fun-fly type planes but I'd like to get into 3D"

"Yes, we see a lot of guys in your situation. we've found that this plane is very popular with them, and seeing as you're new here, we can knock £5 off the price." Etc.

Nobody wants the hard sell, but at least they should make a visit to the shop engaging.

To be honest, it's a lot easier and cheaper to buy stuff from the internet, and I got a lot more interesting conversation from the chat boxes than I did from any of the real people at these shops, plus, there's always one with stock of what you want.

Maybe I'm too idealistic; however, it's pretty sad when you know the name of the AI on the Hobbyking chatbox, but you have no idea who's standing behind the counter of your local hobby shop!

I know some of you are going jump in to defend your own friendly model shops. I used to go to the Balsa Cabin in Heybridge and Radio Active in Chelmsford, which fitted exactly my paradigm of how a model shop should be, so I know know they're not all the same, but I'm wondering how many new customers your shop loses while you're having a long chat with the guy behind the counter.

[Malcolm Fisher]

David,

That's a sorry tale. I am fortunate in that my local model shop usually has anything I want/need but if not will order it for me. There is nearly always time for a chat with whoever is behind the counter and other modellers who happen to be there. However no one is ignored and no conversation takes precedence over a potential sale however large or small that might be. The shop also has a good on line reputation.

Perhaps you should come up here to live in Yorkshire.

Malcolm

[Allan Bennett]

I'm lucky to have a local model shop with a knowledgeable owner. But my recent visits for small items (servo wire, servo plugs, glue) have resulted in 'out of stock at the moment; will get it next week'. Two weeks later, still no stock, so back to the internet.

The owner of the previous, now defunct, model shop here once told me that one of his major problems was that many of the wholesalers required minimum orders, so he couldn't order unless he knew he would have enough buyers to make it worthwhile.

[Former Member]

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[Former Member]

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[Former Member]

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[Martin Harris - Moderator]

I had a very illuminating conversation with a local model shop proprieter at our club this afternoon. The horror stories involving the antics of certain distributors were most intriguing and too numerous to detail or recall at this hour!

In his opinion, a large electronics chain and a major toy retailer came to sticky ends largely due to the policies of various distributors who saw them as preferable retailers for drones and helicopters rather than traditional model shops. These chains had policies of no quibble refunds or exchanges and the typical impulse buyer would bring back the wreckage or new toy that simply hadn't really floated their boat to claim a refund. Without any specialist knowledge, the assistant would simply accept that the product was faulty as stated - both the retailers and distributors sharing massive losses as a consequence. There were even cases of customers walking into shops with a transmitter and empty box claiming that their drone had flown away and being given a complete new outfit or a refund.

Deliveries from many of the major distributors have been sporadic - up to 6 months between order and delivery on several occasions. Mark-ups were only around 12% and a few larger concerns were getting discounts on bulk purchases and selling for less than the normal traders could buy for!

He also recounted getting a "special Christmas offer" to make a £20,000 order from a very well known toy and model manufacturer - and within a couple of weeks finding the same products being widely advertised and sold direct to the public by the manufacturer at less than he'd just paid! When asking whether he could return the now virtually unsaleable goods, their attitude was "tough, you've bought them"...

He is only able to remain in the model trade by having diversified but you have to wonder how much longer he will be able to justify continuing to supply modelling goods without the support of his suppliers.

[John Stainforth]

It's not all bad news on the local model shop front. My "local" model shop (Redfin in Letchworth) is excellent. It's surprisingly well stocked and the owner (Jason) provides really useful and knowledgeable service.

[flyless]

Great model shops in hockley essex. Active scale models

[Rich too]

Poor service from your lms is not unusual unfortunately. My lms was discussed here, and one of the owners posted on here - that was over a year ago and never to be seen again. I pm’d the owner at his request, and he didn’t even bother reading it.

Edited By Rich too on 02/09/2018 08:31:53

[Allan Bennett]

Posted by John Stainforth on 02/09/2018 00:00:56:

It's not all bad news on the local model shop front. My "local" model shop (Redfin in Letchworth) is excellent. It's surprisingly well stocked and the owner (Jason) provides really useful and knowledgeable service.

Interestingly that's the shop I was talking about in my posting yesterday. Obviously the stuff I'm looking for is too obscure -- he had plenty of ready-made servo lead extensions, for instance, but no wire and plugs (at the time I was there) for you to make your own.

[ken anderson.]

we have went from 4 LMS shops to none in recent years,the last one closing right this min...…….so now its the internet or nothing.

sad times for anyone who is coming in to the hobby,starting from sq 1.

ken anderson...ne..1 ….. LMS dept.

[Jimbo565]

Ken

North Shields maybe ?

Ken just had a look at his facebook page and the shop close on June 30th, very sad.

 

Jimbo

Edited By Jim Carss on 02/07/2019 10:01:56

[Cuban8]

I have a model shop within 15 minutes drive, nice people, reasonably well stocked with odds and ends, widgets, paint, fuel, even a small selection of balsa. Rough guess, I spend no more than a hundred quid annually with them. If they don't have what I want they can order, but this might take up to a fortnight because of the way they put their orders through to the distributors - fair enough, however...................

I also have the whole of the UK model trade (those on-line anyway) at my fingertips right here and now, most offering 24hr delivery if you order by midday - internet spend? five hundred quid? probably more, depends on what I'm building and whether I need radio or an engine for a project, so could be much more, you know how it is............

[ken anderson.]

Posted by Jim Carss on 02/07/2019 09:57:36:

Ken

North Shields maybe ?

Ken just had a look at his facebook page and the shop close on June 30th, very sad.

Jimbo

…………………………………………

the very one JC.

ken anderson....ne...1..J.Carrs dept.

[Lima Hotel Foxtrot]

Posted by Dave Hess on 01/09/2018 17:55:19:

"Yes, we see a lot of guys in your situation. we've found that this plane is very popular with them, and seeing as you're new here, we can knock £5 off the price." Etc.

So you want to support your local model shop, but you think they should just discount the money they need to stay open when you buy an item because you happened to walk into the shop one time?

If they did that on a regular basis, they'd go out of business in short order.

If any modeller wants to support their LMS... Pay what the LMS asks you to pay. The people who run these shops are already being undercut by web-based business that don't have the overheads of a physical shop, they have to deal with distributers who can't/won't get the kit into the country, what they don't need is people demanding a discount just for the privilege of having you in the shop.

[Former Member]

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[Cuban8]

Posted by Lima Hotel Foxtrot on 02/07/2019 10:37:43:

Posted by Dave Hess on 01/09/2018 17:55:19:

 

If any modeller wants to support their LMS... Pay what the LMS asks you to pay. The people who run these shops are already being undercut by web-based business that don't have the overheads of a physical shop, they have to deal with distributers who can't/won't get the kit into the country, what they don't need is people demanding a discount just for the privilege of having you in the shop.

How many local model shops that rely on footfall and are beloved of our boyhoods, are actually left? My local one previously mentioned, fits that description fairly well and I do wonder how they're going to survive. As far as I know their web sales are minimal given it's essentially a one-man band.

Do we consider Steve Webb, Al's, Inwood, SMC, Kings Lynn, SLEC, TJD, Balsa Cabin, etc etc (all of whom I do business with)  and all the others that have a big web presence in the same catagory as the classic LMS? I don't. I wonder how much of their business is split between internet sales and over the counter trade. Do they worry about selling a few accessories for a tenner or the odd gallon of fuel to old Fred coming in for a chat now and again? They all have extensive web sites that must be costly to run and administer, along with packing and dispatch.They're web based businesses as much as anything else now I should think.

Have a feeling that's where the money is and the growth potential. Does it matter as long as they stay profitable? But it'll be a survival of the fittest.

Edited By Cuban8 on 02/07/2019 11:34:13

[Lima Hotel Foxtrot]

Posted by Andrew Ray on 02/07/2019 11:25:53:

Posted by Lima Hotel Foxtrot on 02/07/2019 10:37:43:

If any modeller wants to support their LMS... Pay what the LMS asks you to pay. The people who run these shops are already being undercut by web-based business that don't have the overheads of a physical shop, they have to deal with distributers who can't/won't get the kit into the country, what they don't need is people demanding a discount just for the privilege of having you in the shop.

I used to sell cars, it was a family business, are you seriously telling me you would abide by what you have stated here and come and buy a car from me at full price? Of course not, and likewise I won't pay full price and will always try to negotiate a discount. I know you're going to say it's different, but it's not. I have spent as much on models as cars in the past.

And if they had knocked a fiver off the OP may well have gone back and spent an awful lot of money with that shop since he posted the original comment in September 2018, thus reaping the reward of engaging with the customer and offering an incentive to do business with them.

Sorry, but that is a specious argument in all respects. A large single purchase like a car can not be compared with small ongoing purchases like propellers. The capital expenditure is totally different, as are costs for insurance, road licence fund, fuel etc.

Model shops are already discounting heavily. My LMS generally has to take off 10-12% to compete with all the other outlets across all forms of modelling to stay competitive. Why should they then take more money off on the offchance that a customer (who has said he lives an hours drive away) may come back? And how would they police it? Do they take your details for a loyalty card? A photo? GDPR costs money as well. How often do you get the discount? On what items? On model plane parts? An entire plane? A railway set?

There is no reward to be reaped because modellers are generally a tight bunch and will always look around for pennies off. I do it, don't tell me nobody here does the same.

It's laudable that the OP made the effort to visit his local(ish!) model shops, and perhaps more people should do the same, but why bother when items can be posted from anywhere in the UK and overseas.

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[Lima Hotel Foxtrot]

Posted by Andrew Ray on 02/07/2019 12:27:08:

It is only a specious argument because you chose to see it that way and draw irrelevancies into the equation.

Right back at you.

[Nightflyer]

I try to support LMS when I can because I know and recognise their importance, not least in servicing my needs but also the hobby industry and local clubs. It is a two way process of knowing the shop owner and him knowing you and and other customers so they can try to meet your needs. At teh same time it is true that the wholesalers minimum order demands can be daunting for LMS owners. Yes I do also buy things online because I cannot get them locally always but at the end of the day we as modellers play a part in the direction and shape of model trade. I have to say there is more fun in going to my LMS, looking and spending, and also finding other things that grab my attention to spend money then or next visit.

[John Tee]

My LMS is Sussex Model Centre. They are big on the internet and also have a very well stocked shop. Paul will bend over backwards to help and the staff are helpful and knowledgable. I'm lucky in that the shop is on the main A24 (with parking) and I live 18 miles away at the other end of the A24, so approx 1 hour round trip plus time in the shop. Having been to Wings and Wheels this weekend some of the kits I have bought recently are cheaper at SMC than some of the bigger stalls at W/W even when marked up at show prices. I would be lost without them. Yes I do buy online from other suppliers too, but prefer to pop down to Worthing by choice.

John

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

Posted by Lima Hotel Foxtrot on 02/07/2019 10:37:43:

Posted by Dave Hess on 01/09/2018 17:55:19:

 

"Yes, we see a lot of guys in your situation. we've found that this plane is very popular with them, and seeing as you're new here, we can knock £5 off the price." Etc.

So you want to support your local model shop, but you think they should just discount the money they need to stay open when you buy an item because you happened to walk into the shop one time?

I don't know if Dave still frequents this forum but I read it as a hypothetical example of how a model shop could stimulate sales rather than simply taking the money for the items requested.

It reminds me of a tale beloved by a recently departed club member which I think comes within the code of conduct after a slight edit:

A newly hired salesman in a department store is being taught by his manager how to handle sales...

The manager tells him that he'll help the first customer, and show him how to make the most of a sales opportunity, and then he'll let him try.

A customer walks in, so the manager approaches him and says: "Good evening, sir! How may I help you?"

"I'd like to buy some grass seeds.", says the customer.

"Excellent, we have these grass seeds of the highest quality for £3.50. Would you like some fertiliser to ensure they grow well?  We have a really good one for just £9.99", "Oh yes, that's a good idea, replied the customer.

"Perhaps I can interest you in a lawnmower as well?" replies the manager.  "A lawnmower? Why on earth would I need a lawnmower?" asks the customer.

To which the manager responds, "Well, we have a lawnmower on discount currently, for £400 instead of £500, and in two months time when your grass has grown and you'll want to tend to your lovely new lawn, you'll need a lawnmower, but by then the lawnmower won't be on discount... So you might as well save some money and buy it now.".

The customer is convinced, and buys the lawnmower and the grass seeds for a total of £418.49

The manager turns to his apprentice and says, "See? He came in to spend £3.50 but with some convincing ended up spending well over an extra 400 pounds. Now it's your turn to try".

So when the next customer comes in, the apprentice goes up to him and says politely, "Good evening, sir! How may I help you?".

The customer, clearly a bit embarrassed, says softly "I need a box of tampons, please."

The apprentice gives him a box of tampons for £7.50, and says to the customer, "While you're here, perhaps I can interest you in our discounted lawnmower?".

The customer, clearly baffled, says to him "A lawnmower? Why the hell would I need a lawnmower?".

To which the apprentice replies, "Well, your weekend is clearly ruined, you might as well get some gardening done...".

Edited By Martin Harris on 02/07/2019 15:06:59

[Stephen Smith 14]

I raerly use the nearest lms to me because they won't take a chip and continually moan about what others do, they could always follow suit.

I do like to use shops whenever possible and have no problem traveling 50 to 60 miles each way just for a look, admittedly I raerly come home with nothing,

I also buy at shows and most are somebodys lms, but do like to haggle with them, got a few bargains at weston.