UK leaving EASA!

[Peter Christy]

Just spotted this: **LINK**

This is likely to have a profound impact on the drone registration schemes. Whilst I doubt if model flying will be at the top of the minster's list of priorities, it would mean that there might be a chance to distinguish between autonomous or semi-autonomous (FPV) aircraft and conventional models.

Things could be getting interesting!

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Pete

[Colin Carpenter]

You couldn't make it up !😂😂😂😂 Colin

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[Peter Jenkins]

Like Steve, I don't see any major differences in the UK's legislation. What is interesting is that the UK (CAA staff) have played a major role in EASA and EASA may struggle to replace this knowledge but a great opportunity for the Germans and the French as no other EU nations will have the Aeronautical pedigree.

[Erfolg]

I expect  what is potentially happening here is that the UK, will continue to play a part within EASA, although on different basis. That basis is that UK is an Independent country/state, that participates on the basis of its sovereignty, not bound by EU, laws, regulations or courts.

I doubt that anything earth shattering will immediately happen, that is different to the general path we appear to be following.

Edited By Erfolg on 08/03/2020 15:00:10

Edited By Erfolg on 08/03/2020 15:00:53

[i12fly]

Could be a negotiating point.

Maybe it is a weakness for Europe and not UK.

Whatever, the rules will need to be aligned to operate fullsize in both areas

[Erfolg]

Hmm, not sure it is about Negotiating.

I ask my self this type of question, would the EU be bound by a UK court, follow UK regulations. Or perhaps more significantly, would the EU be bound by USA laws, regulations. Or would either party treat each other as sovereign countries, with the right to sign up, or withdraw from any relationship.

In the case of the EASA, it is in the interest of all European countries to find and agree a common set of agreements. It essence it should not matter if they are in the EU, or like Switzerland, Iceland, Norway, Finland, there is common interest in finding common ground as sovereign states.

We have now probably seen the high water mark for the EU. Just like the Hansa League, the British or the Swedish Empires, new relationships will be forged.

Edited By Erfolg on 08/03/2020 17:46:51

[FilmBuff]

Blue Passports and exit from EASA. It's all been worth it!

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

If the U.K makes an agreement with another Country and is "Bound" by legalities and honouring it's word, would it cease to be a "Sovereign" state ?

[Erfolg]

John, it appears that most if not all Independent countries entering into agreements insert a clause that they can withdraw from the agreement. There may be agreed procedures for Independent and agreed processes to take disputes to for adjudication, yet at the end of the day, they can withdraw.

Of course I am not a lawyer, and I am sure there will be many adjuncts and caveats to the concepts that the media publishes.

The only aspect i have reasonable believe in, are that the EU likes things as they are with respect to the UK.

Yet at the end of the day, I expect that the EASA proposals will come to be how all parts of Europe, airspace is regulated.

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

Ah avoid the question, did we cease to be Sovereign when we signed the many, many agreements Worldwide ?

The answer is simple. NO.

[Don Fry]

Trouble is, for all those pontificating on the demise of the EU, when your airliner gets a halfwayy across Le Manche , English Chanel, after 31/12/20, , EASA tells you what happens next. Agree, or don't fly.

[Former Member]

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[john stones 1 - Moderator]

Sign agreements ? there goes us sovereignty then, vassalage it is then.

No one mention the Geneva convention or the Paris accord, Erf will have kittens.

[Don Fry]

Steve, what does EASA do then. Curious.

[Former Member]

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[Erfolg]

John, I am not sure what the point is you are making. If you are suggesting that as a part of the EU, that the UK was a sovereign state, I think the answer was no, or not really. The reason being, it had to adhere to dik tat from Brussels and that the UK Houses of parliament in many areas was subservient to both Brussels and laws as determined by the EU.

With respect to the situation as possibly developing with respect to EASA, I suspect that the UK Government is insuring that the Westminster Government is in a position to determine what it agrees to, rather than falling in line with whatever the EU decides, is the correct or being in a position to not agreeing and with drawing. Non agreements rarely happen, although it will increase the pressure to take the UK seriously.

Irrespective if being a remainer or a leaver, it is in the UKs interest to determine what is in its interest, rather than any other entity deciding what the UK can do, that does not conflict with its interest.

In short I can see the logic in the UK Government withdrawing from the present arrangement, to rejoin as an inde pendant sovereign state. But EASA as we know it is here to stay.

[Don Fry]

Cheers Steve. I will assume therefore, that the UK Government will dictate the outcome of those agreements. Do you fly without them? Still curious.

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

I asked you a question, you where the one trying to make a point, and one that holds no truth.

We are signed up to many Worldwide agreements, does this mean we've lost our Sovereignty ?

A clue, the answer is No.

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[Erfolg]

Some seem to think I am in some way excited, maybe angry or some other emotion about the the EASA developing situation.

The real point I am assuming the Government is making, they will decide what they are prepared to sign up to. I am surprised, maybe I am disturbed, that some do not seem to recognise, that most binding treaties, have a get out of, when signed by a sovereign state.

Whereas with respect to the EU, the UK had not get a get out clause, within the EU. the veto signed away by Major, that is unless  if were to leave the EU. although the EU wants the UK, to continue taking instructions from themselves

I sense that some find it hard to accept that the UK has now, well almost now, left the EU.

Perhaps what illustrates the position of the UK is best illustrated by the seat that the UK has at the UN, the EU, had or was insisting that tat the UK must present the EU position when speaking from that position. I was very surprised to what extent the position of the UK had become one of taking instruction from Brussels, with respect to the EU. This was presented on the television. Yet if you think that this or similar situations caused me any upset, you would be mistaken.

I just see the logic of the UK Government, in governing. The EASA is just one of many arrangements that will occur over the years. It is now UK politics, not just EU politics. I only care to the extent how the present legislation is affecting my modelling.

Edited By Erfolg on 08/03/2020 21:38:45

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

Not at all, I accept we are leaving that thing we musn't mention.

Do you accept your point doesn't bare scrutiny ? Can we sign agreements without losing our Sovereignty, or shall you duck the question again ?

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[Erfolg]

John, the UK will sign agreements, but on its terms, no doubt with a get out clause. As part of the EU there was no UK get out clause, with respect to EU imposed laws or regulations, we had to comply. There was an alternative, which was to leave.

You may see these things as good, or maybe bad, or it does not matter to you. Although legally I suspect there is the world of difference. As with the USA with respect to Iran, they did not abide by the agreement, the USA walked away.

It has been pointed out that most North European flights to North America pass through UK airspace, there is quite an incentive to take the views of the UK seriously.

It has been suggested that the EASA ia a creature of the EU, I had thought that it was heavily influenced by the EU, although many other countries were party to the organisation. If this is so, perhaps a UK presence on differing terms could result in a better balanced approach, to safety in general. I do not see the UK remaining outside the EASA, unless the terms of membership are unreasonable.

I personally do not see the UK leaving EASA as the end of the world. as stated earlier I see us rejoining on terms acceptable to the UK. As a modeler, I suspect, I will not see any change for the better, what ever happens.

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

I aint really got a particular gripe about what our Country does, I do like some semblance of truth though, The U.K will sign agreements on it's terms, hmm, the likes of the U.S must be quaking in it's boots, either that or you are wrong.

Agreements are just that, agreements, the norm is both benefit and give a bit, mutual consent, both still have their Sovereignty.

Mind how you go, I'm off to hide in the fridge.