Never assume, or you're in trouble

[Maurice Harvey]

On Sunday I was "shot down over Spain".

Having been the first member of my Spanish club to go 2.4 this should not have happened to me but

this was a reminder to all the club members, to never assume!

How it came about was that I had dragged one of my aircraft still on the 35 waveband out of the nettles, collected the peg, and headed for the blue skies when all hell broke loose. What have I done went through my mind as it headed earthwards to become a more transportable size. What happened, is that seeing me in the air, the only one, that I was on my usual 2.4 and a transmitter was switched on that just happened to be on my frequency. What could I say, after all, they are my friends and I value their company, so we had a laugh and a joke about how  some lessons are learned that hard way. I then put my 35 transmitter up for sale, sold in five minutes,not, I hasten too add to the person who shot me down!  The proceeds from the sale will buy me another 2.4 receiver. (I wish they would come down in price so that I could afford two).

[David Ashby - Moderator]

Sorry to hear Maurice but you've certianly got to be careful when mixing the two types at the patch. Forgetting to raise a 35MHz aerial after a 2.4Ghz flight is a favourite. Getting back into the frequency control frame of mind also.....

[Bert]

This highlights the reasoning behind the BMFA's ruling that 2.4 users should still put a peg or marker on the board and that flyers should still check the pegboard.

If your friend had done so, your 'plane would have been saved. I'm not criticising, anyone can make a mistake, including me  I'm just making a point.

[Erfolg]

I am a little puzzled to how he would have been saved. He had the peg.

It means some one on 35 did not have the peg and switched on. Peg or no peg.

It certainly does not give any reasonable justification to the BMFAs' position on recommending a black flag or peg.

Erfolg

[Bert]

Erfolg

If his friend had checked the pegboard he would have known that Maurice was on 35m and not 2.4

My point is that if we continue to use the pegboard and frequency markers people will check before they switch on.

This could easily happen to me - I fly 2.4 for most of my park flyers and 35 for all my other planes.

Someone arriving at our patch could assume that I am on 2.4 when I'm not. If they look at the board the true position will become clear.

Continuing to use the pegboard even on 2.4 will help IMO to prevent flyers from becoming complacent.

As for people who complain about having to peg up and show a black ribbon or flag - what's the hardship in that?

I guess that when we are all on 2.4 it won't matter

[Erfolg]

Bert

Get real.

He did not have the peg.

If assumptions are your justification, what happens if you change frequency on the 35 band. By your reasoning, you still get a potential clash, if you do not check the peg board. Ohhh you fly on 70, I did not think you could be on 72 or what ever.

Would he have seen a black peg on your transmitter or that one was missing  from (or on) the peg board.  The problem is that the peg board was not used for 35, he should have had the peg. or enquired where the pegs was.

If a black peg is on the peg board, you still do not know who is on 35, without checking. All you know is that someone is on 2.4, could be any one.

The problem with black flags and pegs, they are a solution to a problem that does not exist. You had the peg, he did not see it. A peg was missing from the peg board, he still did not register a problem. It would appear he did not even bother to enquire about the situation. 

I have just had to register for an exemption from Planning Permission. The government has just stated that it has simplified the process, as in many cases Planning permission will not be required. But now the local authority can place restrictions on the criteria for exemption and you apply for an exemption. Which can still go before a planning committee or endorsement by an official .

 We have become rule mad, the lunatics and bureaucrats have taken over the asylum. We just need to follow the ones we have, not invent more. If the peg board was used for 35 you would not have had a problem. No more rules are required.

Erfolg

[Ernie]

Hi Guys, he sooner we are all on 2.4 the better

ernie ( I've got a bundle of excellent 35 stuff going cheap)

[Tim Mackey]

You and many others Ernie - glad I shifted all mine 2 yeras ago when I converted all my fleet to Spektrum

[Terry Whiting]

I second that Timbo

[Gazza]

Sorry this happened to you Maurice but I cant help thinking to my horror that this may be just the start of many clashes.

Here's my sixpeneth.

All I know is that there more and more members in our club going down the 2.4 road. Perhaps your right Ernie the sooner we go 2.4 totaly the better, but how long do you think that will be and will you ever be sure other flyer's are in-fact 2.4? 35Mhz wont ever be switched off like the TV world of Analog V Digital.

I am still totaly 35mhz, 65 in fact and if I ever convert to 2.4 GHz I certainly wont mix (No offence Maurice) The good news for me at least is that the more people who convert to 2.4 GHz the more room there is on the peg board. All the while 35Mhz exist we must never drop the peg on/peg off system that has kept us in good stead for so many years hence the black pegs in order to enforce good practice. As I see it its my responsibility to check regardless of  frequency.  

Maurice has pointed out the dangers when we mix (Use both 2.4Ghz & 35Mhz) and people start assuming, and we all know what assume can make of us! There is and never will be any excuse for switching on in an environment where others are flying without checking.

Waffling on now, sorry.....!

Happy Landings

Gazza.

[Tim Mackey]

Well I have to say that as a completely and solely 2.4ghz flyer, I see no point whatsoever in a peg system for myself. Our club has one ( peg off ) and I use it, but what exactly am I collecting the black peg for ?

[Gazza]

I do agree Timbo it does seem a bit mad having a frequency control procedure for a system that is totaly unique to each individual but I guess 2.4 GHz is still relatively new? (I know its been around a couple of years or so) But all the while manufacturers Futaba, JR, Sanwa etc continue to produce 35Mhz  sets  catering for both frequency's, I suppose its prudent to keep up proven procedures? Who knows?

Gazza.

[Bert]

Timbo

I do agree that the 'peg off'system doesn't make a lot of sense with respect to 2.4.

My club has the 'peg on' system where we attach a marker with the frequency number, name of member, and in some cases, including my own, a photo of the member. The club does require that 2.4 users 'peg on'

IMO this gives added security in the scenario we are discussing, in that people can check the board and know (without having to go round the flightline asking) who is on what. I admit that the 35 users will be the only beneficiaries of this, since it doesn't matter to the 2.4 flyers.

I suppose some people will say it's an unecessary nuisance, but if those are the rules we should stick by them.

I know some people see the BMFA as faceless bureaucrats, but I see them as tireless defenders of our hobby/sport. Sometimes they won't get it quite right, but they are doing their best to keep the CAA and many others off our backs.

I expect things will change over time, maybe 35 flyers will have to wear bright orange suits to distiguish them from their more up-to-date colleagues so that like-minded users of antique RC equipment can avoid frequency clashes 

[Erfolg]

I am glad that Timbo has a similar opinion to myself.

I become totally frightened when the defence for anything is "those are the rules". How many times is this mind set used to justify the the undefendable, during history. We all know the worst extreme, but lives can be blighted by this mindset (even in the most trivial ways).

We are not school children doing what we told to do, without question (even school kids challenge these days). Some governments think that an ordered society requires unchallenged obiedance to rules that are imposed, any transgression to be penalised and dissention quelled.

Rules need to have Purpose and be effective. The black peg and flag is a nonsence. The 35 frequency needs transmitter control to prevent clashes, so has a purpose, the peg board sytem is one way of implementing rules which are effective.

Apologise for repeating myself, but I feel strongly about this type of situation

Erfolg

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[Bert]

Yes Eric, but you do use 'antique' radio equipment even if is on another band!

[Keiran Arnold]

I think we should all practice frequecy control as laid down by the BMFA, if there is something we don't like about the rules we can always approch the BMFA to either justify or change the rules. This thread highlights that asumptions cause accidents. If the other flier had checked and not assumed then there would have been no 'shoot down' . Yes lets use common sense with 2.4 but lets also remeber basic safety too.  A peg on system allows people to see not only what frequencies being used but also how many fliers are airborne. The 'I always use 2.4 ' is ok but what if you become an instructor and the pupil is on 35Mhz .

Until a suitale 'new' system arrivefs lets use the BMFA rules even if i is a bit anoying and a minor inconvenience Remember SAFE FLYING IS NO ACCIDENT

[Tim Mackey]

I am an Instructor - and happily mix my 2.4Ghz master Tx with pupils who on 35Mhz Tx- and thats a rapidly decreasing proportion of newbies anyway - almost everyone will "start" with 2.4Ghz these days.

Only the master Tx ever actually transmits a signal.

[Maurice Harvey]

Many thanks for all your comments regarding my "shoot down". It is important that we all realise that safety  is paramount for us to enjoy this wonderful hobby.

I do think though, that in my eagerness to abandon the 35 system I should have jotted down a few figures before plunging into the purchase  of a 5 channel (Spektrum) receiver from BRC.  36 pounds sounded good compared to a 7 channel at 57 pounds. But hold on a moment, bought with the transmitter  at 63 pounds that makes 28 pounds for the trannie. That IS good value! When you consider that the 7 channel also has a satellite receiver that costs 19 pounds, the 5 channel looks, and is pricey. (Sorry that I  have printed pounds instead of using the sign but Spanish keyboards do not have that feature). 

[Tim Mackey]

Yep...a seperate thread a while back was discussing the "naffiness" of the new DX5