The Threat of Overpricing

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

Lockdown blues folks ? Lighten up eh.

[FlyinBrian]

My last Wot4 Foam-E cost me £130 delivered from Kings Lynn Model shop (21/2 tears ago) , excellent value I thought. It's now shown at £137.00 still VG value in my view.

[cymaz]

Good value is in the eye of the purchaser. I’m not a good builder, but I thoroughly enjoy renovating an old airframe someone else has built.

Some people wouldn’t worry over a £35/ month phone contract ( £420/year), try and get them to spend that on a secondhand airframe! Personally I could quite happily live without a phone....I’m told I need one by Mrs Cymaz

[Peter Jenkins]

Neil67 - re-read the 4th sentence in your OP and then look in the mirror and decide whether you were being either unreasonable or defamatory. I merely responded to your words. If you can't take it, don't dish it out.

[Doctor Chinnery]

Oh dearie dearie me - have some of the congregation stopped taking their tablets? It's a hobby - remember! If you are obsessed with what everything cost to get what you're flying into the air it's going to take the all fun out of it.

The foamy AcroWot was one of the nicest models I've ever played with ( in calm weather ) tho' on a less than perfect patch it was easy to separate the fuselage from the U/C when returning to our rather lumpy terra firma. Building and fitting out a Chris Foss buildityourself AcroWot is going to cost a great deal more than the foamy - but as mentioned above,the building experience produces entirely different degree of satisfaction from the mere assembly of the foamy version.

In retrospect - all that matters is not perceived VFM (value for money - obvs!), it's SPP (smiles or satisfaction per pound). In fact the S could equally, or better, refer to Serotonin - that Condor Moment - for older parishioners.The ratio is always in favour of something you built over a period of weeks or months, rather than assembled between chores at a weekend .

[gangster]

I have no idea why some have got a bit hot under the collar about this. It just illustrates that it is a broad hobby and different people get different pleasures from it. I do however wonder about the future of the hobby, will it burn itself out Towards the end of the last century we saw the arrival of the ARTF wonderful models, cheap and ready to go followed by the foamy even more ready to go. This must have caused a big boost to the hobby in this fast food world. It would have attracted those who had not served the apprenticeship that many of us did and those who lacked the tools and building space. If those models disappear as they appear to be doing , what next to attract new blood?

[Tim Flyer]

I think lockdown has encouraged a number to build that hadn’t tried it before, or return to it. Time is obviously the biggest issue.

As mentioned by others models are a luxury rather than a necessity so budgets quickly shrink in times of financial stress. Interestingly some of the “golden years” of modelling still seemed to coincide with a period of a slow post war economy.
Although kit and scratch builds cost more, they can be spread out over a period of time , plus the obvious difference is that quality motors and electronics are reusable so are not all repeat expenses with each project. 

People are resourceful and find ways of adapting to whatever the situation.

Edited By Tim Flyer on 24/11/2020 09:33:42

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[Tim Flyer]

Agreed.. I think we need to shift to a society where craft skills are properly valued and we do not waste resources due to buy and throwaway mentality.

I think this will be brought upon us whether we like it or not by rising costs of imports.

The Far East will not forever have excess productive capacity to exchange for $,€,£.

They will have their own domestic demand to satisfy.

Edited By Tim Flyer on 24/11/2020 09:51:58

[Jon H]

Although a tad off topic the comments about waste got my brain ticking.

If you take a standard artf model like a 60 inch wooden frame acrowot or whatever, how much waste is left over after we are done building? The box, all the plastic from parts individually wrapped, and all the sub standard hardware we just throw in the landfill. I wish artf's came with no hardware at all as it would save cost and save a great deal of waste.

Edited By Jon - Laser Engines on 24/11/2020 10:47:51

[Lima Hotel Foxtrot]

It's the £200 bit I find interesting about this.

Yes, in one lump £200 is a pretty decent chunk of money - for some more than others, but as a one-time purchase for a full working toy aeroplane it equates to pennies per flight... Unless you tent-peg it first time out.

£200 could also equal:

-3.1/3 full tanks of diesel for me (or how I more usually do it 10 x £20 fuelings every 2-3 weeks).

-44.4 pints of my fave in the local (of which I have been to just 5 times this year, so there's a saving!).

-1/2 a months rent when I lived in London.

-Plenty of Christmas presents for friends and family.

-2 years club, BMFA and CAA fees.

-A months shop.

- 20 very mid-range servos.

...and so on.

 

Frankly, if you're going to quibble over the cost of this hobby just give it up. Model flying by it's very nature is pricy because things wear out, break and get replaced.

Also, everything in life gets more expensive: Welcome to capitalism. Remove the rose-tinted spectacles. Everybody in the chain needs to make a living, but we have been very spoilt by cheap goods and - golly gosh - sometimes you have to pay for what you want if you want it to be of decent quality.

Edited By Lima Hotel Foxtrot on 24/11/2020 10:55:57

[Nigel R]

"Model flying by it's very nature is pricy because things wear out"

Sometimes quite explosively..!

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[Jon H]

Posted by Lima Hotel Foxtrot on 24/11/2020 10:54:55:

It's the £200 bit I find interesting about this.

Yes, in one lump £200 is a pretty decent chunk of money - for some more than others, but as a one-time purchase for a full working toy aeroplane it equates to pennies per flight... Unless you tent-peg it first time out.

 

 

 

 

Edited By Lima Hotel Foxtrot on 24/11/2020 10:55:57

This is it for me, how quickly will you break it?

As an example, i like to fly 80'' WWII fighters in the 40-60cc class and have 3 of these models flying currently.

So, lets break down my La7 as a benchmark.

Airframe - £350 at the time
Retracts - £250
Engine - £650
Radio - £200 ish (8 servos, rx, switch, battery)
Spinner - £40
Prop - £20
Bits n bobs (glue, pilot, paint, screws, extension leads etc) - £75?

Total - £1585.

So, nearly 1600 quid per model...ouch.

But, my la7 is now over 10 years old and i have lost track of how many flights it has had. If it became a lawn dart first time out i would be quite distressed, but now? not so much.

Has the model broken even? no probably not in terms of £1600/number of flights. I need to check my records to see how much it has flown but if we assume 500 flights, which is probably quite reasonable, its cost me about 5 quid a flight by the time you add the fuel used. If i got the model for free would i hand over a fiver every time i landed it? maybe not? but if you buy a new car do you think about throwing a few hundred quids worth of depreciation out the window every Friday or do you enjoy your new chariot?

with that in mind, has the model broken even on fun factor? ohhh yes. 1600 quid for 10 years of awesome flypasts and a grin after every flight? where do i sign?

Admittedly this assumes you have both £1600 and things work to allow the model to have a life of 10 years. Maintenance is key to prevent model related failures and the rest falls down to how you twiddle the sticks.

Soon (ish) i will be starting on my most serious model to date in the form of a full composite 90 inch P51. The airframe was a grand on its own and given that fact i plan to add a few additional things to help with reliability and make sure it has a long life. Dual RX's for example, dual batteries etc. The rest is down to me as i need to build it right, maintain it, and not fly it into the ground for as many years as possible.

 

 

Edited By Jon - Laser Engines on 24/11/2020 12:43:23

[Nigel R]

Prototype inline 50/60cc twin for that one Jon?

"would i hand over a fiver every time i landed it? maybe not?"

I would, for sure, in fact that's fantastic value for something like that.

I've kept records... My foamies have run me anywhere from 10p to £1 a go; 3s3000 size wood electric sport models, between £1 and £2.50; and 40 or 60 glow sport models, around £5 a go. I clearly need to fly my glow models more!

If I tot it all up, I doubt I burn more than £500 a year on stuff that actually flies. My RC money pit is too many engines that are unlikely to be used. I should sell some and spend it on going flying!

I used to go mountain biking quite regularly. That often wound up costing about £10 ride, thanks to wear and tear and the odd crash. Tyres, tubes, bent wheels, broken gears, shoes, shorts... When you ride three or four times a week that starts racking up quickly. Up to about £2k a year.

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

Same as others my models owe me nothing, I get back what I put in, looked after they more than pay me back.

[Cuban8]

£1500 quid Jon? A snip for a carpenter on two hundred squids a day! You're in the wrong trade.

Only kidding, couldn't resist.

[Jon H]

Posted by Cuban8 on 24/11/2020 13:47:07:

£1500 quid Jon? A snip for a carpenter on two hundred squids a day! You're in the wrong trade.

Only kidding, couldn't resist.

I really am

I could always get the boss to double all the prices, that would help no end...assuming anyone bought anything!

 

Nigel, i have a bank account called 'toys and fun'. A standing order dumps a small % of my wages in there each month to the tune of about £1300 a year.

If i want a new toy aeroplane, it comes from that account. An airshow visit (ticket, travel costs, food etc) all comes from that account. Holidays, cameras, pc games, guitars... Anything non essential comes from that little teeny budget. if there is not enough money i have to sell something off or wait longer until there is enough money.

If i dont do that, i will just buy everything i sight.

Currently i am trying to get the cash together for a new PC as the new flight sim 2020 has crushed my current one. If anyone wants to buy one of my surplus guitars let me know as facebook marketplace isnt doing the job

As for surplus engines...yea, that is a problem. I have sold off most of the ones i can live without. The rest are irreplaceable, at least at the price i paid for them. 

Edited By Jon - Laser Engines on 24/11/2020 15:22:50