FMS flight sim.

[Terence Lynock]

Just how accurate is FMS flight sim program? many of the downloadable models are very simular and it does tend to get boring, is FMS really worth the bother?.

One plane I downloaded is the exception though, called a Pairon it is a twin boom pusher with forward swept wing with anhedral tips and flies like an Exocet, it is very controllable though and whoever designed it knew his job, I love it as you can throw it around and it is rock-steady , anybody know if this model ever existed or is it just a FMS item?,

regards,  Terry

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[Jonathan Lewzey]

I've found FMS to be a good flight simulator for early training, but you can quickly outgrow it and feel the need for a more advanced software package. There are lots of different planes for download on the internet which are easy to install.

I fly using an Esky simulator 'tx' which is basically a USB interface. I have no problems with closing the throttle (on Beta)

i like the F22 and F35 for download, and the hotliner and for helis the T-Rex. I fly a small foamie quite a lot aswell.

[Gemma Jane]

I thought FMS helped me to learn the basics, though when it comes to helis, it wasn't a lot of help I found it easier to just buy a coaxial and just get on with it. I've now bought Phoenix, I won't be going back to FMS now but for a free programme I thought at the time it was good other than the way you hear the crunch before the model hit the ground, that use to drive me nuts like it had decided it was all over before it should have been

[birdy]

Like FMS, but I don't think its particually realistic, I have had no success at 3D, and I think the main use is learning orientation.

[Roy Wellington]

Good morning, I have been trying to download the T28 Trogan to my FMS but just cannot get it to work. I did get some instruction from Gary Gunnerson, (the author) but still have had no joy. Does anyone have a foolproof, & and idiot proof!!, way of succeeding. Even a disc with it on ( I would be quite happy to purchase)

[Jonathan Lewzey]

About 60% of the planes i've downloaded don't work. Don't be surprised if you can't get this trojan to either. Is it the parkzone one? none of the parkzone planes i've downloaded have worked. Just hunt around and try some different ones.

There's loads here

[John Cole]

Eric: what  you've just described is exactly how i/c models work!  If you stop the engine it doesn't then re-start when you open the throttle! So what you've described is a FEATURE of FMS not a BUG.  If you look "inside" the models you'll find this feature only applies with i/c-engined models.  Electric ones can be stopped and started.  Just like real ones.

 This feature was only introduced in FMS 8 and is only present in models designed for FMS 8.  FMS 7 models that have been transferred to FMS 8 do not use this feature.

Terence: the accuracy of FMS was considerably improved (in principle) in FMS 8.  Indeed the three big changes are improved aerodynamics, wind effect and model parameters.  HOWEVER very few "constructors" have used the model-parameters properly.  In fact many provide lots of models whci are really the same one but with a different appearance.  How a model flies is determined by the .PAR file.  FMS 7 planes have small .PAR files (1 to 2 kB) but more-fully-described FMS 8 planes have much larger ones, typically 16 kB.  I'll goive some details in a second note.

.PAR files can be opened and edited using any text editor, but MANY planes are of Japanese origin so the third (descriptive) column is unreadable unless you use an editor that can read and display these characters.

[John Cole]

Sorry about the Smilies: they are converted from the file-content text by this Forum's text-editor. 

For instance, the third-from-bottom line should read:

0.09     23: She(m^2)    Effective Area of Stab

Except that here I've inserted a SPACE after the colon, but the .PAR file should not contain this.

[Hamish]

John

I have been using FMS and found it quite good.  I was using a model gptrh which I thought was a good representation of what to expect although FMS is to forgiving and lets you off with a lot.  Just to compare I took your listing for the SuperCub and renamed it gptrh11.  I also had to change the X file to the same name.

Wow, what a change.  A lot nearer to the real thing and encouraging me to use FMS more

Thanks for your posting 

[Hamish]

John

Is this another model ?

[John Cole]

No. Exactly the same. When I looked at the posting they had smilies embedded in the centre column. I've changed my settings (In My Forum to basic editor and render-smilies-a-text and the smilies have gone. But now I've changed them back and they're still gone!

[John Cole]

Eric: you say there are only two models (each) suppled with FMS. By that you mean FMS 8. All the earlier-version models (in FMS 7) will also work. Jonathon: all the planes I've ever downloaded work for me. Is it possible you are running FMS 7 and trying to run FMS 8 planes? The planes are not transferrable backwards, but they are forwards. Roy: I've just downloaded the pz-28-trojan from the GG site, and it works fine for me. I downloaded the .zip file to a temporary directory and then Extracted the files there. I then copied the seven files to the FMS8\model directory and it flew fine (really rather nicely, if a bit forgiving: I'll look at the .PAR file and "sharpen it up" to suit me). As it's an 8 model it will only run in FMS 8. It's defined as an electric one, so will restart from closed throttle. You should have 7 pz-t28-trojan files with the following extensions: .bmp .mqo .par .wav .x _prv.jpg and _readme.txt Only the first 5 are used "in flight"; the _readme just says who wrote it, and the _prv is just a preview image for when you're selecting a model (Model / Load).

[birdy]

Just a thought: When I updated my FMS, I got a PAR. editor too, which gave a visual representation. This howerever appears as invisable. Does anyone know how you can make a visable representation of it?

[John Cole]

You don't say which version you have.  If you look in the folder you will see a file with a name like ParEdit.exe - it will definitely end .exe  and then if you choose the correct View (or right-click on it) you can see the file-date and size.  For me these are 23/04/2006 16:11 and 985 KB.

Is that the program / verson you are asking about?

There are two types of program referred to as a PAR editor.  I want one that edits the .PAR files that control how the plane flies.  Although the editor I've referred to gives you a diagram showing how the parts fit together there's another type which edits the .x files that controls how it looks.  These give a very-detailed visual representation.

[Erfolg]

It would appear that I must be using a very old version of FMS it has

• Me 109
• me163
• transval
• pits
• diament
• cobra
• hughes
• and a few more.

I have used them all, and found them useful. Also use Reality Craft, which is also very good. It is thier transmitter and cable that have made FMS better. The joy stick control and keyboard were poor.

Erfolg

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[John Cole]

Erfolg: these are the old version 7 models.   If you start up FMS and then click on Help and then About ..  a little window comes up and the contents scroll upwards.  Almost immediately you will see the version.

This will in your case I think say Version 2 Beta 7: the old FMS 7 which does not support version 8 models (and does not allow for wind and gusts).

The more modern version will say Version 2 Alpha 8.5 (just possibly 8. something else).  8.5 is the most modern version.

I recommend you de-install the old version SAVING a copy of the models first to a Temp folder, and then re-install the new version.  Then copy back the old models to the Models folder.  You CAN have both versions installed (I have) but this is not recommended, and it took me some work to make them live together: for instance, I think they use the same Registry values, so if you change models in 8 and then close it and start 7 you will be using the same model as you used in 8.  OK but not if it's a version 8 model, as it won't work!  And you'll think something's gone wrong.

Controls: I used the Microsoft Sidewinder 2 joystick with some success, but now use a USB interface (from China) that plugs into the Buddy port on my Futaba EXAP.  It's nice to have trims and to be able to set the progressive Exponential on the TX, rather than the fixed option built into FMS.  Just cost a few pounds.

[John Cole]

Eric: as you prefer the Reality craft version then you probably won't be interested, but in case others are:

To load a version-8 "IC" model with the engine running you need to have the throttle set to a level that FMS recognises as at least tickover.  You can always do that if you open the throttle a few clicks.

If the engine's stopped when you load the model with Throttle stick back ans throttle-trim up then you just need to calibrate the control: Controls / Analog control ... / Joystick interface / Mapping-Calibration.

The trick then is to remember that when you move the throttle to MINIMUM you must also pull the trim back before you click Calibrate (and don't forget: when it tells you to Centre the sticks THIS INCLUDES THE THROTTLE!).  Then in use you set the throttle trim for a good tick-over: open the throttle a bit, Load (NOT Re-load) the model (engine sound will be heard) and reduce throttle but trim-up until the stick's right back.  THEN reduce throttle-trim for a nice but safe idle.  Once set for one model should work for all.

[Dusty]

Aerofly all the way

[John Cole]

My entries for the FMS 7 .PAR files have been deleted at my suggestion, because some of the character-strings were interpreted as smilies.  So here's my SuperCup again.  This time I've inserted a space after the colon on each line.  Seems neither FMS 7 nor 8 mind that.  You can open and edit both the 7 (small) and 8 (large) .PAR files with Notepad, but the 8 ones are pretty complicated and so better edited with the proper version-8 PAR editor downloadable from several of the FMS sites. 

0        1: Type(-)      Type[0=Plane] ParDesigner Ver0.8
8        2: Tmax(N)      Maximum Thrust
.3       3: Drmax(rad)   Maximum Rudder Angle
.08      4: Demax(rad)   Maximum Elevator Angle
.004     5: Damax(rad)   Maximum Aileron Angle
0.8      6: CLmax(-)     Maximum Lift Coefficient
-0.5     7: CLmin(-)     Minimum Lift Coefficient
6.2      8: CLa(/rad)    Lift Gradient
9        9: CLaSt(/rad)  Lift Gradient in Stall
.01      10: CDw(-)      Drag Coefficient of Wing
0.01     11: CDb(-)      Drag Coefficient of Fuselage
.2       12: mug(-)      Friction Coefficient of Wheels
1        13: dCDSt(-)    Rise of Drag Coefficient in Stall
0.02     14: CM(-)       Moment Coefficient
.005     15: alpha0(rad) Wing Angle
1.8      16: b(m)        Wing Span
0.3      17: c(m)        Wing Chord
.16      18: hce(m)      Equivalent Center of Gravity
2        19: m(Kg)       Mass
.5       20: Izz(Kg*m^2) Yaw Inertia Moment
.5       21: Iyy(Kg*m^2) Pitch Inertia Moment
.02      22: Ixx(Kg*m^2) Roll Inertia Moment
0.09     23: She(m^2)    Effective Area of Stab
.002     24: Sfe(m^2)    Effective Area of fin
1        25: Lt(m)       Tail Moment Arm
.0015    26: VForm(-)    Effect of Dihedral Angle

[Patrick Romero]

how do I create par files from some custom-designed airplanes

[John Cole]

I would suggest you try this first with an FMS-7 par file, and then move to FMS-8 PAR as a second step, assuming you are using FMS-8.  Edit your 7-par file with notepad. For the second step (8-par) you'll really need a FMS-8 PAR editor such as those found at

http://www.rc-sim.de/dl_engine_eng/index.php?subcat=85&PHPSESSID=a6079bba2720211e0a2646dd63f19aa7

You may need to start at http://www.rc-sim.de/dl_engine/ and navigate.

In 7 the PAR file is pretty straightforward, like the one I've listed above.  Look for a plane that's a bit similar in layout to the one you've designed (let's call that myplane) and then take a copy of that .PAR file, modify it to be the right size / weight / power and rename it as myplane.par and put it in the models folder.  FMS-7 planes just need a .wav file for sound, and .x file for how it looks and a .par file to describe how it flies.  Most also have a .jpg file for the decoration.

You don't say how you are building the (appearance of) your new planes.  If you are using Metasequoia (also a free download from this site) then my understanding is that this generates both a .x appearance file (used by DirectX) and a .mqo file which contains the dimensional data which can be translated into a FMS-8 .par file, but I've never done that myself: I'm more interested in how the planes fly than how they look.

Many FMS planes, in my opinion, fly very unrealistically.  This is mainly not because of the limitations of FMS (particularly FMS-8) but because of poorly-written .par files.

[Bas La Bois]

You can download many free planes, helicopters, fantasy craft and vintage planes using a free downloader program from 'Download.com' (I think).  Search for 'FMS downloader'.  I've gone through many of the examples; some are slow and easy to fly and some are just impossible to get off the ground.  I can't exactly remember how many aircraft it downloaded but I think it was 250+, some of which wouldn't run.

If you can't find the program, I still have it on my other computer and I can pass on the details.

Regards

[John Cole]

I gave the address of a good download site above.

Download.com is really for programs so probably not a good source.

The FMS homesite has only FMS-7 models (20) but if you look on the Forum you'll see a download section that covers both 7 and 8:

http://n.ethz.ch/student/mmoeller/fms/index_e.html