Who "builds" ARTF models ?

[Cuban8]

On 23/04/2023 at 08:54, GrumpyGnome said:

I used to get outraged with these terms but now only get mildly irritated: gas, nitro, airplane, drone

Horizontal stab......vertical stab........Grrrrrrrr!😖

[Cuban8]

On 23/04/2023 at 18:46, leccyflyer said:

In my experience the vast majority of modellers have precisely zero interest in competition. If you read the BMFA News you might get the impression that modellers are all competing like mad, but they are not. They are just enjoying their hobby.

Although not a competition, I have some photos from the 80s of Old Warden's Scale Weekend and the attendance was huge with models and modellers numbered in the many hundreds and car parking packed. Good to see we still have Modelair but it's unrealistic to pretend anything other than  the popularity of fly-ins, shows and especially comps is nothing like it was forty years ago. Far from moribund of course but times change, needs and tastes differ between the generations and this is being reflected in what we are seeing now and IMHO, will continue on that course because of the huge popularity of gaming from the comfort of your home. It's a massive multi-billion dollar industry with the clout to influence a huge section of the population to take part and people lap it up - not knocking it, I have family members who earn their living designing games software.

I'ver seen it with my own eyes time and again....a youngster gets dragged over the field by dad and spends half an hour looking at the models.....another half an hour and he's sitting in the car playing whatever it is on his phone. Not all kids of course, some do get into the hobby and enjoy being out in the open and learning a new and practical skill, but on the whole, most vote with their feet and tend to give it a miss.

 

[Ace]

33 minutes ago, Ron Gray said:

you just assemble an ARTF’, definition of aero modelling snobbery.

Surly its reasonable to have definitions recognizing the time, effort, and skills required to achieve an aircraft from the various methods. Some being waaaaaaaaaaay more difficult than others of producing the same end result so deserve to be differentiated.

I would never post a derogatory comment or contradict someone saying they "built an ARTF" but for me assembled more accurately represents the task. We are talking basic ARTF's here. You will always get varying degrees (ESM and F3A aircraft as examples of complex ARTF's) within each grouping. 

After all because I can draw on an Etch-o-sketch (showing my age) doesn't put me in the same group as an Architect. 

[David Davis]

On 23/04/2023 at 12:00, Peter Jenkins said:

Hmm - get out of bed on the wrong side?  By the way, once the aircraft is ready to fly (however that was achieved) we all need to fly the aircraft.  For some, building from plans is what motivates them whereas for others flying is what motivates them.  I put myself more on the flying side although I grew up building from kits (Keil Kraft), plans and cutting my own parts out, and in later years ARTFs.  Mostly, though, I prefer to spend my time flying and improving my flying skills.  This may need me to use the facilities on my Tx to add mixes, logical switches and so on.  Many don't touch even things like rates and expo considering it is not true flying.

 

I think one look at how a flight is conducted will tell you if the pilot a) knows how to set up the aircraft and b) whether they have any interest in improving their flying skills or are happy to go from crash to crash learning little.

 

Each to their own I say.

 

I don't think that your b) follows naturally from your a) Peter. I know how to set up an aircraft but I have very little interest in improving my flying skills. I can already fly to an acceptable standard, (British A Certificate and French Brevet A and QPDD,) and that's good enough for me to be able to fly those models in which I'm interested, namely, vintage models, light aircraft and WW1 stuff.  Furthermore my interest in the hobby is diametrically opposite to yours. I get the same amount of pleasure watching something I've built taking shape as I do flying it, indeed there have been a few occasions when I've stayed in my workshop rather than go flying!

 

As for ARTFs they've started off a lot of modellers in the hobby and many continue to fly only ARTFs as they get more competent, others learn how to repair them then how to build as mentioned above. I've got a couple of ARTFs: a Seagull Boomerang, my advanced trainer for trainees of an advanced age, and a Ripmax Acrowot but I don't get the same satisfaction from assembling or flying them compared with models I've built from kits or plans.

 

None of us was born an aeromodeller, of those of us who can build, someone, my Uncle Geoff in my case, taught us how to build. I built my first model, a Keil Kraft Ajax in 1959. This was followed by a series of free flight and control-line models until the sex'n'drugs'n'rock'n'roll years took over, but by then I'd learned how to build. I built my first radio controlled model in 1988. It was not a success. I took the engine and radio out of the wreckage, built a Junior 60 for it and I've never looked back.

 

I was fortunate in having an uncle who was a superb aeromodeller but as well as teaching people how to fly, I've taught one or two how to build. Most recently my mate Frans who built a Junior 60 followed by a Peter Russell STOL and a Radio Queen. The J60 was a bit of a dog but the other two are much better built. He's also acquired a couple of very doggy foamy We Can Flys which he's restored to flying condition so he's making progress. A Certificate standard by the end of the summer! Picture of us with the Junior 60 below.

 

As for my own ambitions I want to build a 1/4 scale Fokker Triplane and no, it won't be a red one! But I turned seventy-five last month so there may not be that much more building time left so I'd better get on with it!

 

They say that you reach maturity when you realise your limitations. So do I fancy building a big Spitfire? No way, I'm not that skillful but that foamie Flightline Spitfire from Motion R/C looks very tempting!

 

Each to their own I say.

[Peter Jenkins]

Like I said David, "Each to their own".  Btw, I will be seventy three shortly.

[Adrian Smith 1]

Like me, Peter I am getting on for 73 .  Whilst I started my career on building from scratch over 20 years ago (helped me repair crashes!) time is getting too short for me to spend on "building" . Rather I would prefer to spend what time I have by flying and with the odd bout of assembling an ARTF. 😄

[toto]

Looks like I'm an assembler or something ( if I can call myself that ). I'll make sure I get the terminology correct on my " assembly " posts going forward.

 

I'm brand new to this hobby and have bought multiple kits .... all of which are varying degrees of ARTF so no building here. However, I stated somewhere earlier that I would enjoy the " building " as much as the flying. I just admit, I did consider the laser cut dancing wings as near to building as would satisfy me but do appreciate the folks who actually build from plans and raw unformed material elements. Absolutely first class and totally admired.

 

I've come from an O Gauge model railway background and the same questions arise there with reference to kit builds, scratch build etc etc. I have built a few brass kits which come from " flat pack " type kits. I'm not too precious on how people view me as I do it for my own enjoyment ..... whatever the flavour. 

 

One thing I have learned though ( and this does not include me ) but some new comers to hobbies like these can be put off a little by some of the snobbery that exists in the hobby ( model railways ) as some try to fight for top dog status. They feel that they are never truly accepted and their efforts are worthless and unimportant. Maybe that goes a little way as to why of the clubs and forums are declining in numbers as well.

 

My railway forum is going strong enough but there again ...... maybe that's because our motto which is pride of place on our forum motif says ..... " everybody welcome " 

 

The above is not to undervalue the more skilled in our ranks ...... just to hold out a little hope for those who are just getting confident enough to throw themselves into the wolf pit and stick their heads above the parapet.

 

Toto

 

 

[Philip Lewis 3]

Now look here Toto, you just carry on as you are, if you want to call it a build thread then please do so, most people on here couldn't care less what terminolgy you use, we all know what you mean, it's not teminology, it's just other peoples opinions. If they have a problem then leave it at that as that is what it is, their problem, not yours and not mine either.

 

Just please carry on as you are, even as a "hard nosed competition pilot" (what I've been called not my description), I'm enjoying your posts, why? Because it takes me back to the days when I started, (not all that long ago really). No one was ever born a builder or a pilot either, so just enjoy the journey, sure, the more experienced may have a wery smile when we read some things you will say but only because we've been there and we're as much as anything laughing at ourselves.

 

For instance you reminded me of when I bought my first charger, a four cell LiPo charger, and thinking that was all I could possibly ever need, boy I couldn't have been more wrong!

 

[toto]

Hi Philip,

 

I'm not offended or put of in any way. The truth to be told, I'm a bit of a Norman Wisdom character myself ( my hero ) you could say a champion of the underdog, and always will be.

 

I've seen so many similar posts and opinions on various forums ( model railway related ) and it makes me laugh at how serious people take themselves. That's fine, they are enjoying their hobby ( and it is theirs as much as ours ) but whilst you are busy operating at the top of your game ( not you personally ) it doesn't do any harm to humble yourself now and again with a little post of encouragement that may just mean the world to someone not ( yet and maybe never ) as accomplished. It may be they are looking at your very posts for information and inspiration. 

 

We will always need new talent coming through to fill the boots of the ever ageing demographic that makes up our hobby.

 

This is a terrific forum and I must say how involved and welcome I have been made to feel as I'm sure that most will have seen a Carbon Cub being built ....... erm ........ assembled 101 times but felt encouraged by folks still doing me the courtesy of posting up anyway. 

 

Thanks for your response as it may help balance things a little for any newbies who are not as thick skinned as myself. Now back to the building....... no wait ...... assembling.  .... apologies for the cheap shots.

 

Kindest regards

 

Toto

Edited April 25, 2023 by toto