Former Member Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Richardson Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 I agree Phil by the time its thermally protected its thermally poached, could a malfunction of this sort have been Barrys problem??????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Mackey Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 Not always actually. I did indeed have an ESC some time back which I was asked to test for this feature - and it worked very well. The unit obviously had a proper thermal sensing device and operated soley on that criteria, irrespective of the workload, so even though the current draw was within spec by a comfortable margin - it still tripped out after reaching a high temperature brought on by the brutal use of a paint stripping heat gun, and independantly monitored by a further temperature probe and DMM. The BEC function continued to work as normal ( unitl presumably as you suggest it got totally overcooked and failed completely )This seens a sensible way to do it actually, as overheating could be as a result of poor ventilation, proxmity to other heat emitting devices etc, and not purely down to overloading.In ant scenario, component failure could result, so a sensible feature I thought.It was not an expensive brand - a re-badged Turnigy unit via Hobby King I think.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erfolg Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 I see that the discussion has centred on overburdened ESC. I think I have been troubled by such a problem myself. I can not report definitively, as ameliorating the problem, I have not been able to test the model , as the weather is fsting down or windy (apart from the motor tearing itself of the body, thought due to one blade of the folder being partially stuck). Anyway I have started my own twin build, which has concentrated my mind on batteries and ESC. I had thought that it could convenient to place a battery in each motor nacelle along with its ESC. It appears that the nacelles have to very large to be able to do this. So it appears that the battery must go into the body. This is an advantage in that the CG, is easier to adjust (on a conventional layout) by pushing the Lipo to the extreme front if necessary. I then thought, I will put the ESC in each nacelle, that will produce a neat installation. In that the equipment is distributed about the airframe and minimising the cables. Two per ESC. That is when I recognised that one of the issues which had arisen with my flying wing would arise. That is over length battery wires, 6 to 12 inches in length, apparently a NO-NO. So that means the ESCs have to be in the body adjacent to the battery/batteries. Now there will be 6 wires going through the wings. Not the 4 originally imagined. So it seems that a single battery is far more practical for most models than two. I then thought what is the ESC battery interconnctor relationship with that FW? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myron Beaumont Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 About time I threw a "wobbly " in gents ( AGAIN by using an analogy, having read this thread with interest .Hope you don't mind . (& I'm not taking sides ! ) Question 1 ? On an ic powered model ( extreme case scenario -4 engines) -Would you put a seperate fuel tank in each nacelle ? Maybe -But I think not . Question 2 ? Wouldn't you prefer the same fuel "pressure" to go to all engines at any given time so that hopefully all engines respond in the same way ( regardless of throttle setting ! ) Yes ? Question 3 ? As in full size a/c why not move the fuel around to keep the CG correct ( I'll let you work out where I'm going ! if you havn't already ! ) Question 4 ? NO An answer actually --One fuel supply at the same pressure /voltage potential for all engines / motors & one control for each & every one I'm now getting confused myself but hope you get the drift Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A.A. Barry Posted July 31, 2009 Author Share Posted July 31, 2009 Kiwi,thanks for the PM, i agree,no prob's, I really had no idea that i was being rude to anyone, it is hard to put vocal "toneings" on a blank piece of paper, without using elongated, over adjectivefied, oxford dictionary terms......that's not me, any way moveing on to the model. After taking in all of the "inputs" about my problem, I think that it was a miss labled ESC, and with that I have a new on it's way, same as, same as... ie 30/30, 30/30 . The sad thing is that until I have this problem sorted it's "no fly" A.A Barry.... and thanks all. (Love that Whirlwind) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Chaddock Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 ErflogTimbo may have something to add but over length wires from battery to the ESC are better than over length wires from ESC to motor.The ESC has to "sense" the position of a brushless motor to send the next pulse. Long wires to the motor can delay things and cause erratic running. Long wires from the battery to the ESC just result in a small voltage drop which does not directly effect the ESCs function.So IMO the ESCs are actually better in the nascells! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Richardson Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 Hi Myron, at risk of going off topic here, Question 1, absolutely 1 engine 1 tank but we are talking apples and oranges as far as fuel supply. Question 2, fuel pressure, use a regulating pump ( or esc ) on each engine ( motor } Question 3, no argument there always best to keep the fuel source over CG less pitch trim needed. #4 agreed constant fuel pressure/current to each motor/engine can't be better There are many ways to set up an engine/motor system some work better in different applications than others, the problem Barry was having I do not believe was related to either battery position or if there was one battery or two but one of the ESC's/pumps being overloaded and giving up the ghost, I am looking forward to Barry getting a new ESC and making this project work because that is really what this thread is all about, and yes this electrickery can get confusing, your analogy is a good one Myron, it is sometimes hard for us older "glow heads" to catch on as my previous confusion confirms. Keep the faith Barry. Edited By Tony Richardson on 01/08/2009 01:20:03 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwi g Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 Ill listen polly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Mackey Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 Posted by Simon Chaddock on 31/07/2009 23:48:38:ErflogTimbo may have something to add but over length wires from battery to the ESC are better than over length wires from ESC to motor.The ESC has to "sense" the position of a brushless motor to send the next pulse. Long wires to the motor can delay things and cause erratic running. Long wires from the battery to the ESC just result in a small voltage drop which does not directly effect the ESCs function.So IMO the ESCs are actually better in the nascells! Thats incorrect. It is the other way around - longer wires to the motors if necessary, NOT long wires to the battery. Its nothing to do with battery voltage drop, its to do with damaging the input smoothing capacitors on the ESC. Avoid long wires from battery to ESC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Mackey Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 Cant wait for the possible answer to this "problem" Phil - especially if its one not already previously suggested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwi g Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 Waiting waiting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Richardson Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 Posted by Timbo - Moderator on 01/08/2009 09:21:27:Posted by Simon Chaddock on 31/07/2009 23:48:38:ErflogTimbo may have something to add but over length wires from battery to the ESC are better than over length wires from ESC to motor.The ESC has to "sense" the position of a brushless motor to send the next pulse. Long wires to the motor can delay things and cause erratic running. Long wires from the battery to the ESC just result in a small voltage drop which does not directly effect the ESCs function.So IMO the ESCs are actually better in the nascells! Thats incorrect. It is the other way around - longer wires to the motors if necessary, NOT long wires to the battery. Its nothing to do with battery voltage drop, its to do with damaging the input smoothing capacitors on the ESC. Avoid long wires from battery to ESC. "Blimey" got it right on the sonic liner and didn't even know it not much choice really when you look at the layout, c'mon Phil it's been raining long enough for you to give us an answer surely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwi g Posted August 2, 2009 Share Posted August 2, 2009 polychicken. brrrrup brrrup cluck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A.A. Barry Posted August 2, 2009 Author Share Posted August 2, 2009 7.00am sun.WEll, while we wait for Timbo, I went ahead and fixed the problem, not solved, fixed. I had a couple of 80amp ESC, which I fitted into the model ,all good now ,except I had to add another Rec. battery to get it to work, left all other wires in place............I dunno......but it works,............now if the wind drops off a bit this morning, by the time most of you raise ya heads off the pillow and out of your loved ones arms, I should have an answer to wether this thing flys or not A.A. BarryEdited By Barry Wetherell on 02/08/2009 00:27:53 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwi g Posted August 2, 2009 Share Posted August 2, 2009 Excellent barry . cant wait ,and Im pleased that problems sorted. good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A.A. Barry Posted August 2, 2009 Author Share Posted August 2, 2009 Thanks Kiwi, it will probly fly like a brick. if at all, not weight wise, but..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Richardson Posted August 2, 2009 Share Posted August 2, 2009 Go for it Barry, sail straight head and damn the torpedoes. 7 am!! B-H its only yesterday here and its already tomorrow there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Mackey Posted August 2, 2009 Share Posted August 2, 2009 Not sure exactly what you are waiting for from me Barry - as I said earlier...I already gave my "diagnosis" some time back in the thread. So an ESC failed for no apparant reason - I did ask about wattmeter readings etc in order to have some hard data to work from - without which everyoe was / is simply guessing. My eventual guess was that you merely had a duff ESC, which was more than likely caused by a component failure, and replacing it would likely "fix" the problem. Seems it has. Good news then Barry, and best of luck with the maiden flight.Please be sure to let us have the report ...preferably with pictures...even better - moving ones Timbo the electric flight expert guesser Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A.A. Barry Posted August 2, 2009 Author Share Posted August 2, 2009 Timbo I'm not sure the other's where waiting on for either, anyway, a little bit too wndy, but good results on ground handling,until a gust turned it over and broke out the U/C plate, not enough glue I recon, AND of course, the only day I Didn't take glue with me............plenty of "grunt" in the motors ,even at 1/2 throttle, sped across the ground , no tendencies to back flip , rudder good responce, sterrable nose would help, yea pretty happy so far, ....I will keep ya posted, and thanks all A.A. Barry Ps I think it may too fast for a movie camera to catchEdited By Barry Wetherell on 02/08/2009 10:43:12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Chaddock Posted August 2, 2009 Share Posted August 2, 2009 BarrySorry I got it wrong, Timbo is the expert.In my defence long motor leads can also cause some problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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