Kim Taylor

Hi John I've been running it in on 20:1, then iirc 22:1. I don't recall if I've gone to 25:1 yet, but I've just mixed some Aspen at that ratio for use the next time I fly it. Have you got yours down to a sensible idle whilst keeping a good pick up through the mid range? Kim

Hi again, The engine (don't scoff 🙂) is an NGH GT17 petrol with a 15x7 APC prop. From memory it turns it at around 8000 rpm, although I've struggled to get a reliable idle below about 2200 rpm as it seems to load up (go rich) after 10 seconds or so. If I try to lean it out a bit at the bottom end, it tends to cut out as I open the throttle. I've now put in a throttle slow of 1 second, to try to alleviate this in the usual panic 'go round' situation, which really is where we came in. I did have a 15x8 on it, but that pulled the revs down at WOT and it just seemed to struggle a bit on pick up, although it is quite torquey through the rev range. It pulls the plane around the sky quite well insofar as it does everything I want it to do, it'll do all normal 'on the wing' aerobatics and will pull a vertical, although not by any means unlimited. All the above with the stock 'silencer' plus an additional can. It passes the std noise test, by virtue of the relatively low revs it pulls It's supposed to be equal in performance to a .90 2/ glow and it sort of is, in everything except the ultimate top end. When the weather improves, I'll get it up to the field, fine tune it and give it a go. What could possibly go wrong?? Kim

OK sorry for the sudden departure - I'm back now. To try to cover everything that's been raised: Ron - I can easily try spoilerons, would just need to swap the aileron servo leads over to convert from flaperons. The basic issue with the strip (certainly as it is at the moment) is that it's an approximately 50 - 60 metre diameter circle, surrounded by long (nearly waist height) grass. If you clip the grass with the landing gear it tends to grab the model, with the inevitable face plant looking ugly at best. I have got away with it, but you can't guarantee it. Jon - I think that your suggestion re: c of g has merit. I've been out in the garage and checked, and it's set to the front end of the suggested range. I know on my late normal sized Wot4 I had the c of g well behind the rearmost suggested point. The model does land like an express train and it doesn't want to slow down unless you start the approach in the next county. I'll experiment with it when I gather up the courage to take it to the field. I also need to fine tune the engine now that it's run in - I need to get the idle speed down as I think that is also contributing to the difficulties I've had. I've also got 2 or 3 years more experience now, which may come in handy!! 🙂 I think for now I'll wait for a suitable day (could take some time) have a fly with it and try moving the c of g back incrementally until I feel more comfortable with it. If I still have trouble, I'll copy the split aileron / flap setup from the Xtreme and start playing with that. Thanks to all for the contributions and I guess that the takeaway is 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it'. Cheers Kim

Nigel The Xtreme arrangement is what put the thought into my mind and as you say, the approx 60 / 40 split. A clubmate also suggested raising the ailerons at the same time as the flaps drooped, which is about as far as I'd want to go to achieve my goal. Wholesale alterations to the airframe are not on my agenda at the moment (I've learned the hard way recently how quickly circumstances can change). If I can't get comfortable with it as above, I'll sell it on. 🙂 eta Got to go out now, I'll get back to the remaining posts later - sorry!!

Don't know how to do multi quotes, so you'll have to bear with me I'm afraid. Frank - Yes, I'm sure I can do similar either on my radio - I'd have to work out the programming but I know that others have done it. eta Good point about the hinging - I probably wouldn't have thought of that until I couldn't get the droop I wanted.

Evening all. Following a house move, my new 'regular' club strip (I am still a member of and visit my 'other' club) is somewhat smaller than I am used to, and is most times surrounded by waist high grass I therefore feel that it would be an advantage to have flaps on my largest model, the Wot4 XL of the title. I have previously set up flaperons but I don't think that I can get enough 'droop' on the ailerons to really have any effect on the landing speed - the Wot4 seems a surprisingly slippery airframe, given it's slabby appearance. I intend to cut the ailerons into two 'halves' on each wing (like the Xtreme) and obviously modify the structure as necessary to fit the relevant servos. So far so obvious. 🙂 Now, my questions are: 1. What proportion of aileron to flap is felt to be right - I'm thinking something around a 60/40% split (in favour of the aileron, obviously) 2. Will it be necessary to link the flaps to the ailerons (when they're not being flaps) or will increasing the throw of the outboard 60% of the aileron be sufficient to maintain the current roll performance. At the moment the model has been hanging up in my garage (2 garages, in fact) since before the covid lockdowns and it's bothering me that it's a waste. I could just try and sell it, of course, and buy something more suitable for my current circumstances, but I'm unlikely to be able to cover the cost of a replacement as everything has gone up so much. And anyway, where's the fun in that? 😁 If anyone has any experience, or opinion on the above please don't be shy. If you've done this mod to a Wot4 or XL - even better, how did it go? tia Kim

It is supposed to be less toxic, by virtue of the process by which it's made, apparently. The smell is a bit similar to a white spirit and quite faint, certainly didn't get any complaints from 'er indoors when I stored my big Wot4 / NGH 2 stroke in the then spare bedroom. You can always buy the 4 stroke (straight Aspen) and mix with synthetic 2 stroke oil to your desired %age. I did this to get a 4% mix for the NGH. Ran nicely and doesn't go 'off' with age like petrol tends to do. Kim

Not sure where 'round here' is, but you might want to look at the .gov website for agricultural workers minimum wage before making sweeping statements like that.😉 Kim

I think the truth of the matter is that they won't be bought as an entity. There will probably be a bunfight over the most profitable / popular products between maybe Century, J Perkins, or maybe a larger retailer will step up to keep the Wots / Black Horse et al available. At the end of the day, the manufacturers will (probably) still want their kits / motors / LiPos etc. on the shelves over here, so a way will be found. Kim eta Futaba is the biggie, I guess - certainly if you already use it.

My sympathies lie with the employees first and foremost. I guess that the product lines (if viable) will be sold on / taken up by others. I bags the Wots J Perkins is, I believe UK based - they certainly have a base in the UK (not the same thing, I know). Kim

It means that (in flight) when you pull the nose vertically upwards and give it full throttle it'll go up and up and uuuuuuuuuuuuuuup. Unlimited. You get the idea eta If you've got one, put a 12x6e or 12x7e prop on it. More than enough power for now - you can always prop it up for more oomph when your brain has caught up with it (no offense intended). Kim

Good to go! 👍

That's almost frightening!! Maybe because the control surfaces are aerodynamically balanced? Either way, food for thought. Kim

Logic RC are the main repair agent in the UK, maybe try them? (I know you're in France, but don't know if anything is set up there) The switch should be easy enough to source from any component supplier though - the handle, not so much Kim

Your arming plug can be any format, it doesn't have to match anything else on the model, just be man enough to carry the current. I tend to use XT60 because 1. All my 6s models are on XT60, so I've got them in stock and 2. They're easy to solder As per above, my gut feeling is that is too much prop, but you've got to start somewhere I suppose. I would have gone maybe 12x6 as a starting point. I'm assuming in all of this that you've got some means of checking the current draw with the motor / prop flat out? If not, that's your next and very important purchase - very easy to overload something and let the magic smoke escape!! 😮 Kim p.s. Are you intending to use 4 or 6 cells?? the 14x6 would probs work on 4, assuming no clearance issues as noted by Learner

Hi Toto Any switch capable of reliably handling the load involved in these applications (and not made of unobtanium and costing thousands of £) will be too big / heavy. The way to go is with an arming plug between the LiPo and esc as (I think) previously described on this thread. Couple this with the throttle cut switch setup on your transmitter, interlocked with the throttle stick, so that it can't be switched on until the throttle is shut (it's all in your transmitter manual) and you're as good to go as you can be. Then it's just a matter of having the procedures in place to ensure safety - I tend to switch on the Tx, ensure throttle cut and stick low, insert arming plug (to liven up the Rx), and control check. All of the above having ensured that IF everything you'd put in place were to go wrong, you and nobody else is at risk from the prop suddenly starting. If you need to quickly disconnect the LiPo, simply pull the arming plug, job done. Much more reliable than a switch. Kim

I think you can get them with or without connectors soldered on. Also, you don't have to use Overlander esc with their motor - I tend to use Hobbywing, for instance, but you must do what you're comfortable with. It's easy enough to solder on the correct connectors to the esc, just order up some spare EC5 connectors, you're bound to need them in the future. Changing the connectors on a LiPo is no more difficult, you just need to be careful and very sure not to let the two wires touch. When I've done it, I tape the wires individually to the side of the LiPo and only have one 'loose' at any one time. The bigger they get, the thicker the wire though, so you need a decent size soldering iron to be sure to get a good joint. Hope that all makes sense - it's getting late!! Kim eta the 5055/06 is a bit of a whopper for the Domino, but it'd probably work, as I said in the other thread, it's the prop what governs the power, not the motor. eta (again) Just looked at the Electrospeed packages and the 40 would do the job, although a bit light on the motor, but over 700W will more than do for a trainer type. Don't be sucked in to the 'must have 150W per lb' line of thought, a trainer needs no more than 100W / lb and would fly on less, albeit not fast or unlimited vertical. I'd still go for the Overlander 🙂

If not the Overlander, they're sure to do something similar - they're proprietary motors badged up for different manufacturers as far as I can see. If not, Sussex Model Centre are showing them in stock as I write. Esther is most offended - she says she's definitely not a he and never has been. 😄 Boxer / Staffie cross, and as mad as a box of frogs. Kim

I'd go for something like the Overlander 4250/06 800kV and a 60A esc, if running 4S. If you want to use the 6S that I seem to remember you've already got, go for the 500kV 4260/06, again with a 60A esc. The 4S would be better really - less weight to lug around. Oh, and this is Esther, our Boxer X Kim

If you're looking to do a .46 equivalent, then you'd need to prop your motor to around 800 - (maybe) 900W. Revs wise, on a 6s you're going to be seeing around 9000rpm (allowing for a little 'slip') so pretty much on the money for a .46 propped with something like an 11x7 or thereabouts, but the proof of the pudding, etc. FWIW I've got a Seagull PC-9 .46 size, running 6s 3000 battery, 500kV motor (4060 can size, from memory) and that needs a 13x8 to give 750 - 800W. On the other hand, my Gangster 63 running the same battery, with an oversize (5060 from memory) motor will produce the same on a 13x6.5. I put this down to the larger motor running closer to its synchronous speed (kV). I now use a 12x8 which gives a bit more top end and will still pull unlimited vertical. I usually size the esc to the motor, rather than the absorbed current - just makes it easier down the line when you re-purpose the motor into something else. You don't have to, though. Kim

That's the beauty of electrics - as long as the motor is adequately sized (or larger than required) then you just prop it to the power you need to fly the 'plane. So for instance, lets say your motor will produce 1500W on a 15x8 prop whilst drawing 70A, but the model only needs 900w, just go down on the prop to a 12x8 and see what you're drawing (ecalc can give you a ballpark figure to make life easier, but I've never used it). Play with the prop size, until you get the power you require, measure the amps and be amazed at how few you're drawing. Your 6s 5000 will now last twice as long as when you were pushing the motor to its' limit and everything will be nice and lightly loaded, cool running, etc. In simple terms, the prop is what governs the power being produced, the motor delivers exactly what the prop will absorb at its running speed (governed by the kV rating). All of the above numbers are indicative, not real - you would need to test (or run ecalc) yourself to tune your own setup. Kim

I haven't flown mine for a long time (long story) but iirc: I used a generic 4060 500kV motor, 6s 3000mAh LiPo, 60A esc, 13x8 prop. I went 6s because I already used them on other models, I'm sure it would fly on 4s on the right motor / prop. From memory, this showed somewhere between 700 - 750W input. At this, it's seems quite scale speed wise and is unlimited vertical. It's a bit porky - from memory 6 - 6.5lbs (partly my 6s setup, I know) so I wouldn't go with a lot less power. It likes to be going at a fair lick before it'll lift off, and it lands pretty hot, but once the wheels touch terra firma, it stays down and doesn't bounce. Generally a nice locked in flyer (and it's got a nice aerodynamic whistle on a fast fly by. My recollection is that the published c of g is conservative, but I'd have to put mine on the balance to find out for sure. hth Kim

A propos of nothing in particular, many years ago my son raced karts, then cars. My daughter rode horses (and still does, for that matter). Financially, it was a struggle for us. Their maternal grandparents flatly refused to contribute to my son's (in their eyes deadly dangerous) hobby, while encouraging my daughter in her chosen path. Now, I know which is the most dangerous, which over time has been proven by daughters visits to A&E and orthopaedic depts. and her broken & pinned arm, leg and ankle. No.1 son, however, has never broken a bone whilst competing over a number of years, although to be fair he did injure his lower back in a kart when he was 15, which has never fully healed. I have always ridden bikes - 'nuff said. Everything and anything can be dangerous, it's the old risk vs. reward conundrum. Kim

Saw all 3 flying east to west just off the south coast of the Isle of Wight at just after 16.00. Maybe they passed over Thorney Island en route? Kim

Sorry Paul, bang out of order, you have no knowledge of the circumstances, other than the (sketchy) report. reported to mods Kim p.s. if this is the way this forum is going - I'm oot