Which lathe ?

[David perry 1]

I am considering buying a small lathe to make the various metal bits and bobs we so often use and abuse.  I have looked at Alex W's micro lathe from Arc Euro, and the one up (in their case the C3), but I have also looked at the Sieg mini lathes C1 ansd C2 from Axminster tools. They appear to be almost the same machine with minot differences, like a SEAT and a VW for example, but the ARC is a little more expensive once they have prepared it for the customer. The Axminster one's tools are slightly more expensive (but pounds, not tens of pounds).

 

Does anyone have experience of the Sieg lathes in comprison to the ARC?

 

Is there any good advantage to the C2, say, at 420 quid rather than the smaller micro at 360 quid? Is the 250w motor much more useful than the 150w??

 

I have no lathe experience at all, but my son who goes to a school with loads of lathes tells me its easy to produce good work on a lathe and he'll show me how if we have a lathe.

 

Furthermore, when buying such a lathe, what should one buy at the start? Obviously the 11 piece tool pack seems good, as does the drill chuck, but anything else??? 

 

David 

 

 

[Tim Mackey]

My 20+ yr old Peatol Lathe is still performing well - may be worth considering?

Also known as Taige

[Eric Powell]

I too have an old Peatol lathe which i found in my local newspaper which cost me £50 and it came with everythting necessary.

the only problem with it being American is all the dials are set up in Imperial measurements.

if interested look on the Peatol website .www.peatol.com

[David perry 1]

Can you cut metric threads on an imperial m/c?

 

David 

[Vecchio Austriaco]

I have a 30 years old EMCO compact 5" - it is perfect for this hobby. This type of lathe has been used in the past also by the industry for laboratories and for education - they were sold in the UK and were mainly in use by life steam modellers.

engine 500W, max diameter 5", max length 450, automatic feed, thread cutting (even the nasty 11x0,75....), vertical equipment for drilling and milling, dividing head and so on.

Last but not least: Made in Austria as I am .

 

VA

[Peter Wood]

Dave 

 

I bought a Warco WM180 about three years ago which is of a similar spec to the C3. I had no engineering experience and it was a very steep learning curve but here are some things I have found out the hard way.

 

The first thing to recognise is that these mini lathes and 7x10 type lathes have their limitations. Because they are not as robust as bigger lathes they have their limitations in terms of accuracy. It still amazes me that a 20mm steel bar can bend under turning forces. Nonetheless as you gain experience you can take steps to minimize the problem.

 

 Also the smaller the machine, the smaller the task it can undertake. I burnt out the motor on mine when trying to turn down a piece of ali from 110 mm to 70mm. I got impatient with the time it was taking and started taking bigger cuts at higher speed until the inevitable happened. As I say, recognise their limitations.

 

Secondly I would not get hung up on what screw threads can be cut. I have still not used this facility (a) because it is difficult and (b) because most threads you will want to cut are easier with taps and dies.

 

A four jaw chuck should come as standard. It is essential for working on anything other than bar or circular items.

 

A set of cutting tools including a parting tool is essential and I would add a quick change tool post with two or three holders. It is a pain changing tools when you have to adjust the height with shims. With a QCT the tool remains in its own holder which is set at the corect height so accuracy is maintained.

 

Finally I would buy a Dial Guage or Dial Test Indicator ( see Chronos). Almost essential for accurately setting up work. The former is cheaper and more versatile but the DTI is more sensitive.

 

A final thought. Making things on the lathe is quite addictive. I now spend as much time making gadgets and stationary steam engines as I do building planes. As a result I soon bought a milling machine and cannot resist buying all sorts of extras. Beware!!

 

Peter

 

 

 

 

[David perry 1]

Thanks guys.  Ive had an email back from Peter at Peatol, and his look good.

Unfortunately I also found Harryuk123 on ebay selling essentially the exact same lathes but called Amadeal.  These have a 500w motor and are 7x14 inches, so slightly bigger. The prices are similar to peatol but lower than ARC and Axminster / Sieg.  They seem to have good reviews and no real issues with them, well, no issues at all actually, like so many of the lathes. I like the bigger motor though, that sounds good.

 

It seems that whatever I buy in this bracket I am pretty much going to get the same kind of thing...so which is prettiest???

 

David 

[Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator]

I really envy you guys - I'd love to have a small lathe at home - I have access to lathes at work, but its not the same. Unfortunately I really don't have the space in my workshop at the moment (converted spare bedroom! SWMBO's rules are that I can have the bedroom for a hangar/workshop - but nothing (repeat NOTHING) must come outside of there unless it is in transist to the car or glue required to fix something she or the kids have broken!)

 

But I do have plans to "take over" the garage one day - then I'll have my lathe!

 

Go for it David!

 

BEB

[Brian Parker]

I have had the SIEG C3 (from ARC Euro Trade) for some time, bought when they had their 'Fully loaded' offer on.
 More than satisfied with it although I have done a few modifications.

 It is a simple job to commission it yourself, you don’t need to pay ARC to do it, plus it gets you to know the workings of the lathe.

 If you havn't any tooling etc then expect to spend almost the same amount again to set yourself up properly if you want to be able build engines etc.

 Mine has proved to be very reliable, only needing a new drive belt (oil contamination due to over-enthusiastic lubricating) although it does need regular adjustment with use.

 The most noticeable modification is to fit the Brass Gibs set for instant smoothness.
The Book, 'The Mini-Lathe' by David Fenner takes you through the commissioning process, I wish it had been available when I bought mine. It details several modifications and has lots of useful information.
The Lathe is actually a Chinese copy of a Russian Lathe.

[Allan Jordan]

Hi David, Buy the biggest and best you can afford, as one other "forumite " has just said, using a lathe does become addictive... almost certainly you will want to progress from small jobs to much larger ones. Buy one and have fun with it !!!!

 

 PS. If you do decide to take the plunge and you get into a tangle with it there are quite a number of us on the forum to help you out.. Good luck....

[David perry 1]

Thanks all.  Allen, trouble is as a new lather, I cant tell which is "best".  The 7x14 is new, has digital readout (Ooooooooo!), a 500w motor blah blah blah and is chinese made and costs 400 quid.  The Warco is ditto, costs ditto (new) but is a bit smaller. The one I have seen is 225 quid!

 

Oops, one is clearly bigger than t'other!

 

I'll decide soon and let you know.

 

Interestingly, and get ready with the tissues, my brother bought a lathe today...an as new Myford super 7, and because the guy selling just wanted rid, he paid.....£400. Yup. four hundred.  He mic'd the lathe...true to less than 1/2 a thou. Blah!!!!!!!!!  ASnd its absolutley as new.  Unreal.

 

D 

[birdy]

Lathes are indeed adictive. So addictive that I forgot to turn an almost finished project round in one, and drilled a big whole in the wrong end.

[Simon Chaddock]

David

As Allen has said the biggest (and heaviest) you can afford. A Myford Super 7 is great if you have the space.

I inherited my dads 1928 Drummond M type lathe and its still going strong.

[David perry 1]

I have bought a very good condition second hand Warco mini lathe .  I paid 200 quid for it and it really is as new. The local 2nd hand tool store threw in a load of things too, and their good advice is always free.

 

D 

[kc]

Make sure you buy all the fixtures specific to that lathe you will ever need whilst they are available!   Cheap lathes come and vanish quickly and their accessories even quicker..

 Buy all threaded items, chucks, changewheels, steadies etc but dont worry about Morse taper items.

Otherwise  buy a Myford 7 which seem to have all items always available.....at a price.

[Ketan Swali 1]

Posted by David perry 1 on 01/03/2010 10:48:17:

Thanks guys. Ive had an email back from Peter at Peatol, and his look good.

Unfortunately I also found Harryuk123 on ebay selling essentially the exact same lathes but called Amadeal. These have a 500w motor and are 7x14 inches, so slightly bigger. The prices are similar to peatol but lower than ARC and Axminster / Sieg. They seem to have good reviews and no real issues with them, well, no issues at all actually, like so many of the lathes. I like the bigger motor though, that sounds good.

It seems that whatever I buy in this bracket I am pretty much going to get the same kind of thing...so which is prettiest???

David

David,

A Peotol is a different animal from a "mini-lathe". A mini-lathe is a different animal from a C1.

A C2 and a C3 are "mini-lathes" with a geared head and brushed DC motor. Both of these machines as supplied by Axminster and ARC are from the SIEG factory in Shanghai. The 500w brushed motor versions from Warco and Amadeal are made by sub-contract factories based in Anhui Province in China. The original manufacturer of Warco/Amadeal machines was called the "Real Bull" factory. That factory went bust two years ago as a production unit. Real Bull now exists as a trading concern, even though it is regarded as a manufacturer. Warco does not buy this machine from Real Bull. Amadeal does, to the best of my knowledge. The lathe beds of Warco/Amadeal are of a slightly different design to the Ax/ARC. The Warco/Amadeal 500w brushed motor may be more powerful than the other brushed versions.

100mm flange: SIEG is a far bigger and powerful operation than the other mini-lathe operations based in Anhui. It has the financial ability to offer a mini-lathe with a 100mm flange spindle. However, based on engineering principals, at present, the engineers at SIEG, and ARC do not agree with the 100mm flange spindle with a 100mm chuck load, spread over such a short spindle length, supported by ball bearings, as is the case in the Amadeal offering. For the same reason, the original design as originated by the Russians is based on a 80mm chuck. An adapter plate is available to fit a 100mm chuck on a C2/C3, but it should only be considered for short runs, or, the headstock bearings should be changed to tapered roller bearings if a 100mm chuck is going to be used over a long period.

PRICING: For mini-lathes you are comparing a geared mini-lathe with brushed motor for C2/C3, Warco, Amadeal, with pricing for brushless DC belt drive motor on SC2 and SC3. Brushed motor geared head is different and lower torque than a brushless belt drive head. The brushless belt drive systems have a far higher torque then a brushed motor version, even at 500w DC. Main advantage of the brushless system is torque at low speed - for screw cutting, and also, a brushless belt drive system is far more quieter!.

The mini-lathes as offered by ARC without preparation service are no different in assembly to ones offered by anyone else...regardless of what anyone may say. As for ARCs preparation service at extra cost, we have again had to suspend this as we have a long waiting list of orders for this service. We hope to resume this servise in about eight weeks time.

Please make the right comparisons to decide on what you want to do.

Ketan at ARC.

[Ketan Swali 1]

David,

Sorry I forgot to mention that I did note that you have purchased the Warco mini-lathe second hand. My comments are just stated for clarification. 

Ketan at ARC.

Edited By Ketan Swali 1 on 08/03/2012 22:44:48

[John Payne]

I have a Myford Super 7, made in the early 60s, and it is an excellent lathe. If you can find a good second hand one, not cheap I know, you will find it will do most of the stuff you need. Mine has imperial dials and I have no trouble making thing to metric dimensions, I just use Zeus tables to do the conversion. Works for me. Not done any screw cutting as the threads I cut are more easily made using taps and dies. They are addictive and there are many attachments to be bought for it, some necessary, some not so. The main thing to get is some good measuring equipment, micrometer and digital calliper, and some decent cutting tools, probably carbide tools if you are not comfortable grinding your own. Oh, and have fun! Cheers, John.

[Steve W-O]

Posted by David perry 1 on 01/03/2010 07:21:05:

Can you cut metric threads on an imperial m/c?

David

Yes, as long as you have the right gears.

[Ketan Swali 1]

David,

On a mini-lathe, the technical answer is that you can cut a metric or imperial thread on an imperial machine if you us a tailstock tap or die holder with appropriate tap or die.

if you are using the change gears on a mini-lathe then you can only cut metric threads on a metric machine and imperial threads on imperial machines accurately. This is because of the main leadscrew which is metric for metric machines and imperial for imperial machines.

You could use the change gears on an imperial machine to cut metric threads using some formulas, which some people do, but they may not be a 100 percent accurate. However this point is open to debate.

Ketan at ARC.

[thomas oliver 1]

Any machine from China will need a thorough inspection and fine tune, unless provided by the dealer. The C! lathes are a trifle small and I would go for the bigger sizes according to what you can afford. One of the bugbears of machines is backlash in the slides and digital readouts eliminate this - a very worthwhile feature. Any one figuring to add readouts to a machine - be warned. Some of them are very temperature sensitive and can go haywire in winter conditions. From what I have read on machining forums the electronic units are prone to burning out if overloaded. Replacements from the USA are recommended, as is a heavier motor. Power in reserve is always a boon when doing heavier machining. I do not go along with all this tipped tool and TC preference. TC tools can not have ultra sharp edges as the material is too brittle and chips easily, so TC tool have minutely rounded edges. They are expensive and difficult to regrind. HSS tools will do everyting a modeller needs, are cheaper and easy to grind to form shapes -a lot of which is necessary in the diversity of shapes required for modelling

Additional accessories - a revolving tailstock centre is useful, a 4-way (not a 2 way) toolpost. An awful lot of work can be accomplished with a knife tool, chamfering tool, round nose tool, and parting tool mounted in a 4-way toolpost.. It is much quicker than QC tooling.

Packing tools up to centre height is always a chore to everyone, and tools after regrinding may need packing up. I have countered this by making up a partioned tray with shims of increasing thickness, each one clearly marked with felt tip pen. Since My Boxford lathe is set to use 3/8" tools, and I have tools ranging from 1/8" to 3/8" square, I have a tray with appropriate packing of 1/4", 3/16",1/8" and 1/16" to allow the use of all size tools. Remember that smaller tools are much easier and quicker than big ones to grind. Then I have another with packing of shim sizes, up to 20thou., up to 30 thou. and so on for fine adjustment. The short time I spent making these up has repayed itself many times over. My latest efforts are in milling or fiing tapered packing strips to adjust centre height. This works well. Another system I have used over the years is to stick the packing to the bottom of the tool with thin doubled sided sticky tape, so that the packing is always in place with no fiddling. Then lately I have made a good few tool holders with a sloping slot for height adjustment milled for small toolbits, held in with two grubscrews. These are very quick to change.

Other contributors have mentioned using taps and dies for screwcutting. One of the first jobs you could tackle is to produce a tailstock dieholder for 13/16" split dies. This is a must for model work and good for first practice. Nearly all British built model engines used BA series of threads. 0,1, 3 and 7 sizes are not used much at all. Just acquire the ones you want as you go along, and build up the set. You can usually manage with 2nd and Bottoming taps. The taper is not usually essential. If using Metric tooling, a full set from 1 to 6 will all probably be needed. Stick to British makes for now. Some of the foreign stuff is rubbish.

Remember that each metal has a fixed cutting RATE. The speed at which the metal passes the tool tip must be a constant, so high speed for small diameters, lower speed for bigger diameters.

Key word for everything is Rigidity. Keep tool overhang to minumum and the work overhang from the chuck to a minimum. Use tailstock support for longer work or it will turn out to be tapered..

Consider this: A T union fractured on the car. To replace it would have required a half hour journey and a five minute walk to the main dealers. Wait in store for component and bill made out. Return journey and cost of several pounds. A part was made from scrap copper pipe and help from the lathe, soldered together in 15 mins.

I have made over £4000 in my spare time over the last three years making parts for model diesel engines and selling them on Ebay.

A lathe is a wonderful tool if you can lean to use it. Happy turning.