mal brewer Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 Posted by Steve Hargreaves on 29/11/2011 10:10:53: Just thinking about fuel.....I trust you are planning on using one of these. Tut tut Steve and Danny, far too modern........................you've got to use one of these......................... a metal valvespout..................................Mal Edited By mal brewer on 29/11/2011 10:32:53Edited By mal brewer on 29/11/2011 10:34:59 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Hargreaves - Moderator Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 Excellent Mal.....excellent...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Fenton Posted November 29, 2011 Author Share Posted November 29, 2011 Hi Steve, no I didn't know about plastic bottles and ether..... I will take note Okay Mal where do I get a genuine metal tinned primer bottle Should go well with my wooly vest Martyn F2784, a modern one mine was F937 "Vivette" Restored it twice before deciding it was too much work to keep it nice. I sold it to a chap who has restored it yet again, and is racing it regularly I believe. CheersDanny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mal brewer Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 Posted by Danny Fenton on 29/11/2011 10:49:50: Okay Mal where do I get a genuine metal tinned primer bottle Should go well with my wooly vest Cheers Danny Hi Danny, don't really know where you would get one of the metal valvespouts' from.It's a case of digging around.I've seen them on sale for ridiculous prices on places like e-bay,I've also seen them for a couple of quid at autojumbles etc.So the answer is really you'll find one where you'll find one,if you know what I mean.Not much help,I'm afraid..............................cheers,Mal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Hargreaves - Moderator Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 Hey Danny, seems that getting hold of some BA screws may be the least of your problems....... Seems it's very important to store diesel in a metal can see here It sez.,... Use metal cans when storing diethyl ethers. Iron in container inhibits the formation of peroxides. Plastic squeeze bottles may be used for small quantities of materials for immediate use, such as 2-propanol, but must be labeled. Apparently peroxides can become unstable & explode when moved...... But all joking aside, you'll be fine with the plastic bottle.....just keep it closed & don't decant more fuel than you need.....as I mentioned earlier I use a plastic syringe & transfer the fuel directly from the metal can it comes in to the model Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Fenton Posted November 29, 2011 Author Share Posted November 29, 2011 Okay I have ordered a fuel bottle from the link Steve gave. With postage its over a tenner for a fuel bottle I May be able to make up some keil Kraft stickers for it and redeem myself....... I was bitterly dissapointed to find there wasn't a metal spout inside the lid of my fuel cans. Or was that something only certain fuel tins had? CheersDanny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Fenton Posted November 29, 2011 Author Share Posted November 29, 2011 Well have not had much time today, just managed 5 mins to drill the engine holes. I sharpened my best mkI eyeball, sought out the wobbliest drill bit. Closed my eyes and drilled.......Had a bit of trouble operating the pillar drill with my eyes shut It was a good job, cos it is spot on and the screws can be removed. Not at all as I remember. Now where did I put those fuel tanks, cos I ought to think about where the juice is going to get stored. Oh for an engine with an integral tank PS the screws are 9BA okay okay closest equivalent diameter to M2 CheersDanny Edited By Danny Fenton on 29/11/2011 18:14:01 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Fenton Posted November 30, 2011 Author Share Posted November 30, 2011 Well this evening I have had a great deal of fun. Firstly I sorted the cowl out, reshaping it a bit to make it a little more pleasing to the eye. What followed was probably some of the most challenging iron on covering I have ever done. This lightspan, doesn't shrink much so you cannot leave to much slack. It also doesn't stretch much So managing to do the entire side including curvaceous nose in one piece has brough a smile to my face.I did a little demo of using Solarfilm and Solartex to some clubmates one clubnight. For the demo I covered my glasses case in one piece of Solartex. I was pretty chuffed with that. But I nearly crushed the case with some of the pull I had to exert to get the last corners covered.Anyway it may not look much, and there are a few small lines, but I am chuffed with how far I have pushed the material Trouble is I have to try and do as well on the other side This grass roots modelling is really compulsive PS the wrinkles over the stringers will go, this hasn't been shrunk yet, just tacked around the edges.... CheersDanny Edited By Danny Fenton on 30/11/2011 00:12:41 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mal brewer Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Hi Danny, model's looking good.Yes,it is a bit of a struggle covering the fuselage with one piece of Litespan per side,it gave me a few laughs as well.I think mine may have been a bit more awkward than yours,as I attached the tailplane and fin (oops,nearly said tail feathers) prior to covering.One thing that does puzzle me,and always has done on this model,how do you insert and tighten the lower engine mounting bolts.On my own model I have made the lower cowl detachable,but yours appears to be permanently atttached to the fuselage,as was the prototype model's,or am I missing something ?..............cheers,Mal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Bott - Moderator Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Looking good Danny. Mal if I remember correctly the usual method with the engine bolts was to solder a piece of piano wire across the heads of both bolts. Then tighten the nuts from the other side of the engine bearers with a small spanner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Hargreaves - Moderator Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Posted by Chris Bott on 30/11/2011 08:16:46: Mal if I remember correctly the usual method with the engine bolts was to solder a piece of piano wire across the heads of both bolts. Then tighten the nuts from the other side of the engine bearers with a small spanner. This is indeed true Chris.....I covered this in a post a while back so Danny is aware of this method. As I noted at the time it's important to get the solder to hold just long enough to allow you to tighten the nuts up. Then the soldered piece of piano wire should break away leaving it impossible to undo the nuts without the screw turning. By this time you will have completed the cowl making it impossible to get at the screw heads. Extra points can be awarded for burn marks on the balsa caused by the soldering iron..... Danny that is looking truly excellent.....I can see you earning a gilt edged copy of the Keil Kraft handbook for this one. Naturally I am a little disappointed that you didn't use a wobbly hand drill for the engine bolts.....this really can help in getting the holes at the various angles required & with care can mean that one of the screw heads will be too close to the crankcase & you will really struggle getting it in place....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Fenton Posted November 30, 2011 Author Share Posted November 30, 2011 Morning balsa bashers Well I know the soldered bolt method was outlined earlier to me, by Steve, and I do vaguely remember doing mounts that way in my yooof. However for this one I decided on a different approach. Even though I know I am turning down the opportunity for Keil Kraft bonus points. The reason being access to the screws/bolts.If you solder the screws with a length of piano wire and feed from the back, you will have to use a nut spinner to tighten up the nuts on the cylinder side of the engine. Because this model is closely cowled there isn't anough room to get a nut spinner down the side of the cylinder, and onto the two lower, obscured screws. However if you feed the screws from the cylinder side there is clearance between the cylinder and the cowl..... just So nuts will be fitted to the inside, held still with some "vintage" forceps, well they must be vintage they are as old as me I could use Nylocs but I fear they will be visible, and I really don't want yet another beating.I will solder the wheels on, will that gain me extra points towards the Keil Kraft Aeromodelling Proficiency Badge? if I can find some nice vintage jobbies, even better. Mal where did you get your wheels they look most suitable?CheersDanny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myron Beaumont Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Of course,another advantage of the wobbly drill, angled tapered holes and self destructive bolt head holding piano wire method etc is that you can customise that polished / machined crankcase and the mounting lugs by using an old screwdriver that you have had for years .Of course ,no-one will see your handy work for all to admire until the crash when the cowl is broken off and all will be revealed.Then you'll be able to get at the nuts and score up the lower face of the crankcase and lugs before hiding your masterpiece of customisation again 'til the next crash Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Bott - Moderator Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 If yr soldering washers to hold the wheels on, don't forget to leave the heat on long enough to elongate the hole in the wheel. Don't want it c going round nice and true now.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Hargreaves - Moderator Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Good advice there from Chris & Myron....... A possible method for securing your nuts Danny is to use a small piece of copper clad board.....the sort you use for making your own pcbs..... You do make your own pcbs don't you? Anyway...a short piece of this board can be attached to the back of the engine bearers (use epoxy) with the nuts soldered to it so you can just screw the mounting screws through the bearers & into the nuts..... PM me your address if you'd like a bit.....I think I can spare you some..... Ssshhh! though...I'd rather you didn't tell anyone about this....it is a bit modern & I might be barred from the Society of Ancient & Distinguished Flyers & Aeromodellers Reservist Team (SADFART for short!!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myron Beaumont Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Chris Hilarious ! Maybe a thread could be started up on "how not to do things" (based on real life experience of others of course) Don't think I've laughed so much since my mate tried to stop his prop with his handkerchief thrown into it years ago and the vibration before the final stop shook his plane to pieces. Edited By Myron Beaumont on 30/11/2011 09:54:24Edited By Myron Beaumont on 30/11/2011 09:57:52 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Fenton Posted November 30, 2011 Author Share Posted November 30, 2011 LOLOL Myron that is funny.Steve I am sorry but I am going to have to report you to S.A.D.F.A.R.T for suggesting the use of PCB board. That really is too far! I didn't want to say but I am a member already.The top of the cowl comes off my Mam'selle to fuel the monster diesel hiden within. Everybody would see the pcb and turn there eyes away and wander off muttering stuff, all of it probably hurtful I was thnking I could solder up a grid of piano wire around my nuts (ooo er vicar). Plenty of opportunity for scorch marks then Chris I will make sure the wheel hubs are nylon and melt them securely onto the piano wire, so they grab every now and then. And yes I will try and elongate the hole too Edited By Danny Fenton on 30/11/2011 10:08:37 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Hargreaves - Moderator Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Well this thread comes close Myron.....here we all are offering our best, hard won knowledge & Danny is ignoring us all & producing a beautiful model..... He really should have used BA bolts though..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Fenton Posted November 30, 2011 Author Share Posted November 30, 2011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myron Beaumont Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Steve & Danny Trouble with BA bolts is that usually you've lost most of your proper nuts in the back of that old drawer where spares are kept for safe keeping , so consequently have to force on other thread types of approximately the nearest diameter (UNF,whitworth ,BSF ,Chinese metricall come to mind ).The good news is that they don't ever come undone, unless the remnants of a junior worn out hacksaw blade are used together with side cutters and pliers- further enhancing that vintage look Useful Tip ----.Using Cillit bang will take the shine off bright scratch marks, score marks and gouges if left on alloy overnight and give a "straight out the mould " appearance to any part modified / customised /aged. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Bott - Moderator Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 I think I have some genuine 70's PCB board, paxolin backed, not quite true, probably has ferric chloride splash marks on it too. Would that be fitting or not? In those days I would have used washers anyway, but maybe just large blobs of solder on the U/C would be more in keeping. Especially if the flux runs into the wheel hole and gums it all up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mal brewer Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Hi Danny, I know I'm making heavy weather with this,but I still don't see how you are going to hold the screws whilst you tighten your nuts,if you'll excuse the pun.Do I understand correctly that you are going to hold the exposed end of the bolts with your 'vintage' forceps while you apply a spanner to the nuts,as there doesn't appear to be enough clearance between the engine cylinder and cowl to insert a screwdriver.........................Mal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myron Beaumont Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Chris Soldering flux ,especially "Bakers'Fluid " containing hydrchloric acid cannot be beaten for etching away that "Too New "look.Doesn't take long either Top Tip --Do not wash off remnants but add more and heat up on a daily basis for a fast vintage appearance. Apply all over exposed piano wire .As mentioned use Cillit bang on all alloys of aluminium and / or magnesium for a good all over neglected appearance The blueing effect on hot exhaust bits can be easily achieved by the careless use of a blow torch and dripping fuel on when cooled to boiling point (severly burns your finger for those without a thermometer ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Bott - Moderator Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Myron.Are there any more grades of temperature on your finger thermometer? I've definitely used the "can just hold" setting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Fenton Posted November 30, 2011 Author Share Posted November 30, 2011 Any suggestions on achieving the old soaked look other than by soaking in oil perhaps i could use the airbrush to weather it Mal, I have deliberately left the cowl to cyclinder fit a bit larger than i would normally to allow a screwdriver blade in between. In fact I could have made it smaller as the forceps easily fit They are shown here clamped onto the head of the screw CheersDanny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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