Super 60 build, Big Bandit

[Big Bandit]

Hi Jim, Martyn,

 

I was hoping for better but on Saturday, till I had a look,

 

To say I'm not a happy bunny is an under statement,

 

Any road up, I ain't going to be put of by some dodgy paint. Should have listened to Jim . I've sanded it back and tried again.

 

Loks much better now, will need to check it out after work tomorrow, I'll get right stroppy if it's gone belly up again.

 

For now I'm happy (ish), will try to extend the trim on the fin and tailplane, when this has had time to go off. I must admit after spending the best part of £15 on a 250ml tin of paint and a tin of brand compatible thinners, I aint impressed. Add to that a spray can of brand compatible fuel proofer at £10, and following the instructions on the tins. I'm taking Jims advise and using Wilco's paint in future. I expected to get on with the job and have a resonable finish , following good preparation, and I don't cut corners on suitable tools including painting, so I don't expect a sub standard finishing job.

 

Rant over.

 

Work again next week , so it'll be Thursday before I can move on again.

Cheers,

Chris.

[Jimbo565]

Chris,

 

Looks like the Flair paint has re-acted with dope on the nylon,the acryilc paint will go on top of cellulose but not the other way round.

 

The fuel proofer will have to be compatible with the acrylic paint to prevent crazing

 

Methinks a test piece would be wise

 

Jim

[Big Bandit]

While I'm waiting for paint to dry, I've been prepping for a gig I have in March,

 

This is yesterday evenings effort. Anyone with Idea's for RC versions I'm open for suggestions. the stocks in for the event from the nice lady at the BMFA office.

 

All idea's welcome.

 

Cheers,

 

Chris.

[Big Bandit]

Hi Jim,

 

The Celly dope has had three weeks to dry, It's Flair paint., and says on the tin recoat within 2 hours or after 48 hours at room temperature which I've adheared to religiously, so I'm at a loss to whats caused the problem. I've not used the fuel proofer yet, just the colour trim.

 

Cheers,

 

Chris.

Edited By Big Bandit on 12/02/2012 18:21:34

Edited By Big Bandit on 12/02/2012 18:22:08

[Mike Etheridge 1]

Dear All,

 

I am not sure how I have missed this forum but last year I completely (Apart from the wings) re-built a Super 60 I acquired from E-bay. I have flown it twice the last time in October. As it stands it's a bit of a hybrid because the re-built fuselage and fin are covered with 'Oratex' and I have retained the tailplane with it's Solatex cover. For now I am using my 50 year old New Junior 60 wings which have been covered twice with red nylon,the last time in 1976. The original nylon turned from red to pink and just rotted.

 

On the issue of covering with nylon I used balsa cement to anchor the nylon to the airframe parts which I held in front of an electric fire to accelerate the 'going off' of the cement. On the wings for sake of argument the cement was only added to the leading and trailing edges. Once the cement was dry I then added the clear dope. However care had to be taken to ensure the whole process was carried out in a dry atmosphere otherwise white blotches would appear on the nylon.

 

I fitted a new Enya 40 to the Super 60 which has proven too powerful and could have fitted an old Merco 29 as an alternative which on reflection would have been more appropriate but of course would have an ineffective silencer.

 

On a full power take off with the Enya the plane climbs almost vertically like a pylon contest plane or the space shuttle! I have yet to find out where the 'fly-in' will take place, but it would be great to attend.

 

MJE

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited By David Ashby - RCME Admin on 13/02/2012 08:45:05

[Andy Green]

Hi Mike, looks like you are a Chrome user.

 

Andy

[Lee Damms]

Hi Chris, as Jim says looks like the flair paint has reacted with the dope. Had the same thing happen to me I'd run out of sanding sealer for a fuselage and used some old dope, big mistake. Its still looking good you should be proud of it.

 

Lee

[Mike Etheridge 1]

The New Junior 60 with Ben Buckle 1946 Junior 60 (Narrow Fuselage) pictured below. The latter has wings borrowed from the former and is Solar Film covered. As mentioned before the New Junior 60 has it's second covering of nylon which is now looking a bit jaded and fuel stained. However the tailplane and fin are covered with Solar film but were originally covered with red Modelspan heavy weight tissue. I must add some pictures of the Super 60 although there is a bit of a 'send up' plus video on my club website BPMFC---- 'Another old clanger saved'.

 

I am quite amazed to read that colour dope is being used on on the new build Super 60's, I have not used colour dope since the 1950's and was under the impression that Humbrol enamel in those days was at least fuel proof to diesel fuel. My New Junior 60 suggests otherwise! On the Super 60 I have used fuel proof colour spray paint in limited areas such as the engine bay where Oratex covering was impossible (Paint is 'Gluelines New Spectra Specialist Enamel Paint at £9.50 a tin)

 

Andy what's a Chrome user?

 

 

[Andy Green]

On your first post there was a lot of computer code, (It looks liek Dave Ashby has removed it) this code is placed in the post when you use google chrome web browser. See below.

 

I have raised it but no one answers.

 

Andy

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited By Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 11/03/2012 20:02:56

[Jimbo565]

Chris.

 

The very same effect as you have,my midget Mustang with a dope and tissue finish sprayed with Black metallic cellulose,white trim applied with Wilkos white acryilc spray paint and finished with two pack clear laquer ( thinned with cellulose thinners ) as fuel proofer.

 

Look at the result, who's a stupid boy then ???

The acrylic dont like cellulose.

[Steve Hargreaves - Moderator]

Just a quick comment on the black metallic paint finish though Jim.......

 

WOW!!!.....

[Big Bandit]

Hi Jim,

 

That black metallic is stunning, like Steve said WOW,

 

In saying that I've done the same with celly on enamels in the past, but the base finish was nowhere near as class as yours.

 

Back in the eighties I helped with a build of a full size VP2 with a VW 1800 motor fitted with a Kavan type 2 conversion, mech pump and Proser slide carb so we wound up with a 2.1 litre lump up front that was conrollable low maintenance and spun a big prop (it was to me anyway).

 

The whole airframe was covered in rip stop nylon and doped (three coats full strength), we had gallons of the stuff in the workshop. It was a mates uphostery workshop, I can't think of what his customers thought that thier new furniture smelled like. After a coat all over of ally primer (for a radar signature so I'm told). The build that lasted three years including a visit to the Great Western pub after putting a few hours in on the plane every Wednesday evening. My mate engaged the services of a painter of sorts who did fairground rides for a living.

 

We had three weeks of evenings in the Great Western, while the painter did his bit, little realising the shock we had to come.

 

You will have to imagine what the general comments were when we first viewed the the painters handy work, it went something like "What have you done" begining with, interspersed with, and ending with, various expletives, that are totally unsuitable for general consumption before the water shed, and anyone with a nervous disposition.

 

The upshot is the art work led to the aircraft being nicknamed "The Fuming Parrott" after the paint job and the fact that we almost killed the CFI at Leicester East (who did the check flights for the CAA) with fumes entering the cockpit from a rather elegantly (if I do say so myself) designed exhaust system that we little understood and despite the fact that the painter used oil based enamels on top of doped nylon and it never crackled like the stuff on my Super 60.

 

I think I'll stick to Jim's advise.

 

Cheers,

 

Chris.

[Jimbo565]

Chris,

I used to do a bit of spray painting in my younger days ,If you wanted a cheap job,------------ hot pot is the stuff, oil based enamel was heated up and sprayed on to the car,One coat ,brilliant shine,tell the punter, no abrasives of any kind ,no polish ,just wash it and keep any cellulose based stuff well away from it.

 

Oil based goes on top of cellulose but not the other way round, unless you like a crackle finish of course ,just like my Mustang--- stupid boy

 

 

keep the pics coming of the S60.

 

Jimbo

[Big Bandit]

Hi All,

I've managed to sort out the foul up with the paint, appears it's worth waiting for at least a week before second coating with the Flair paint. I took the crackled finish back with some fine paper, then re-masked it and tried again. Much better this time. but then got some creep under on one side of the fin. Hopefully should be able to recover that so given a fair go I'll try to get some done this weekend and post more photo's.

Cheers,

Chris.

[Big Bandit]

Hi Folks,

I've managed to recover the crepe under problem with the fin, and have found some masking that works a lot better than Frog tape with enamels. I got this from the local toy shop that deals in plastic kits as well. It's Tamiya masking tape and only 6mm wide, doe's a great job.

So after sanding back the fowl up on the fin a bit, re masking, it looks a lot better. Not perfect , but better.

And the front end

While the paint dried I decided to instal the blind nuts for the motor mount, which are a complete pain when the bottom sheeting is on. Anyroadup, using a 6BA HT steel cap head bolts with some repair washers of a suitable size under the head to spread the load. Providing that the drilled hole is enough to accept the raised centre portion of the blind nut, with a bit of fiddling it works . Crank em up tight and a bit of thin cyano on the visible edge of the nut just for security, and it's job done.

Vintage cheese head steel bolts installed ready for the motor mount .

But I've kept a copy of the KK handbook handy, ready to defend myself, just in case I had to use M3

As far as I've got today, and although not entirely happy, I can live with it.

And from the other side.

So tomorrow, the missus and myself are out for breakfast at a facility on the old Great Central Railway, as it's been recommended by a flying buddy .

Afterwards I'll mask up and trim the wings. Then hopefully next weekend it's transfers (I hate the word Decals it's an Americanism) and fuel proofing.

Cheers,

Chris.

[Steve W-O]

Looking great, I'm afraid mine is going to have to do with a white top half, red bottom half with a coachline along the join, nothing as fancy as curved lines !

I may leave the covering until Easter, and do the Beguine at the same time, and get the other projects under way in the short spells of time I have until then.

[Big Bandit]

Thanks Steve, Theres a lot to be said for straight forward colour schemes and I'm looking forward to seeing the Linnet finished. It looks good already.

I managed to muck up the breakfast trip this morning and went to the wrong station, but at least it was different. When I eventually found the right one, it was quite pleasant. There was an O gauge or similar live steam train set that was built into an embankment quite impressive in a way but one bloke had a Spekky 5 TX controlling the train, I can't make up my mind if it's over kill or quite clever.

Anyway when we got home I managed to trim the upper surface of the wings. I let the paint go off on the first panel with the wings horizontal, for at least 45 minutes before I removed the masking. The finish ain't too bad. After trimming the grass I did the second panel exactly the same.

The fuselage and tailplane.

So here is where I am at the moment and I think it's apparent where I'm going with the overall scheme.

I have been considering a silver trim line on the fus and wings only to give that general period scheme. So now I have to wait until next weekend so the existing paint has time to dry properly and then do the under side of the wings and the centre section. Then I need to sort out the transfers, but I'll have to order some waterslide paper for those or do some simple Fablon ones, I'm not sure yet.

Cheers,

Chris.

[Stephen Grigg]

Here is a Super 60 from yesterday BB

[Anthony Billings]

Blimey,

with that picture, you really get to see the actual size of the thing, may have to re-think the size of my workbench, should not be long now before I start my build, all the bits and bobs have arrived, just got to finish the tileing in the bathroom and can then concentrate on the build.

Tony

[Steve Hargreaves - Moderator]

Looking really good Chris.....can't wait to see the finished model.......extra marks for the 6BA bolts too...

Might I hazard a guess that a paxolin engine plate is to be employed here too.....? This might be enough to gain you life membership of the Society of Ancient & Distinguished Flyers & Aeromodellers Reservist Team.....

[Anthony Billings]

Hmm,

so if I cover mine in Solarfilm, will I still be able to join the S.A.D.F.A.R.T. ??

Tony

[Steve Hargreaves - Moderator]

Of course Tony......Solarfilm is suitably "vintage" having been around since the late 60's/early 70's.....

[Big Bandit]

Hi Stephen, yep, like Tony said it looks big, a bit classic at the same time though , I like it.

Hi Steve, I've used Glass fibre board for the engine plate (early eighties 1/8" PC board with the copper etched off), (made a good chassis for the 21 powered IC cars), Paxolin allows too much vibration to be transferred through the airframe, as it's too ridged. I'll try both and monitor with the sound level meter, may be a bit of useful information for future reference to someone.

Can I have my SADFAFT badge now, I've got three KK catalogues in protective plastic sleeves (that I haven't beaten anyone with yet) , and a blood stained KK prop .

Hi Tony,

I agree with Steve, Solar film's been around since Noah was a lad, so I can't see why it's not appropriate as long as the colour scheme fits the general ethos of the era.

I've gone for the classic Navy and White. Thinking back to the Queen Mary pictures, that I was brought up with, Rule Britannia and all that, ay what chaps .

I'll take some pici's and post where I am at the minute at the weekend, as I've had some diversions lately, like working, sleeping (not that I do a lot), and eating, interspersed with a bit of painting trim on the Super 60.

I'll even take some pici's on the lawn if the sun manages to shine and ratty keeps his head down, I shot his mate.

Cheers,

Chris.

[Anthony Billings]

Hi Chris,

as to the colour scheme, as a newb, I was thinking along the lines of something very bright, and the wing tips in the port and starboard red and green so as not to get confused with orientation, although looking at the size of the plane, I don't think it will get that small at the distances I will be learning the ropes so yes maybe a traditional scheme may be in order.

Tony

[Big Bandit]

Hi Tony,

I still think the old adage of two mistakes high holds true, no matter what you fly, but a bit of variation in the colour scheme helps with orientation especially at my age (I've just been to Spec Savers).

I do find that definition fore and aft helps rather than port and starboard in the overall colour scheme, as the vertical elements play a part relative to the horizontal.

Some ARTF's have very little clear differences between horizontal and vertical colour schemes and I have difficulties knowing which way there going.

When my mates flying his new PZ T28 for instance (all grey) and I'm flying my old (red and white) T28, I find it much easier to orientate, because my fin /rudder is red and white, and his is all grey. His cowling is all grey, mine's red and white.

If your whole leading edge is iether red or green, your going to know wether it's inverted or not, instead of coming towards or going away from you.

Cheers,

Chris.