Super 60 build, Big Bandit

[IAIN KENWORTHY-NEALE]

Enjoying your blog very much.

 

I was given a Junior 60 and electric motor to suit yesterday for my bus pass birthday. I have not built or flown since I was 20 so that is a 40 year break.

 

I still have an old Merco 35 in the drawer, a DC Spitfire 1.5 cc diesel and a sullivan electric starter. The sole survivors of my last flights. Oh and a 6 chan 27 Mghrtz futaba 6 chanel set

.

I think I have a lot to learn but it will be fun.

 

Thanx for taking the trouble to post.

 

PS Nylon and tissue were a;ways used wet in my day. I can remember that much. Lol

 

Iain

Edited By IAIN KENWORTHY-NEALE on 20/12/2011 15:38:25

[Kevin Fairgrieve]

Posted by Big Bandit on 18/12/2011 20:09:36:

Hi Kevin, Alan,

 

Just had a look and it's £6.89 and worth it's weight in precious metals, if you've got a Kindle down load it, well worth a read, a real trip back in time and about £80 less than the hardback version.

 

Amazon \kindle store.

 

Cheers,

 

Chris.

 

 

 

Thanks Chris.

 

Got mine now. I do not have a Kindle but Amazon have a free download for a "PC Kindle"

 

Kev

[Big Bandit]

Hi Andy,

 

Mrs BB brought me the Kindle last Christmas, and I'm totally converted. You get the apps with it, but TBH the thing is so good. take it anywhere no more bulky books to lug about, even audio books and plug your cans in, veg and listen, all of the books are so cheap. My Daughter has brought the new watered down one without sound and keyboard, but it's still so good. also has a full Oxford dictionary which is good for me because I'm rubbish at smelling.

 

The best books so far are the Bill Bryson collection especially "The life and times of the Thunderbolt Kid". It's like Ken Anderson in print . And "A short history of nearly every thing".

Len Deighton, "Good by Micky Mouse", "Bomber", "Fighter".

Richard Hillary, "The last Enemy".

Stephen Harris, "Under a Bombers Moon".

Douglas Adams, "The Holistic Detective".

Steve Gilbert, "Learning to Fly Electric Model Aircraft".

Stephen Bungay, "Most Dangerous Enemy".

James Hamilton, "Empire of the clouds".

 

There's loads more and the version I've got holds about 33000 books, need to start speed reading.

 

Cheers,

 

Chris.

 

 

[Big Bandit]

Hi Steve,

 

The brass bush is a turned component, commonly used in the 60's for an 18 SWG nose bush for rubber powered models and I still have some although Sam's do them at a price. there's a fair shoulder at the thick end and the rest is threaded 4BA. Under the shoulder I've used a steel washer about 2mm greater diameter than the shoulder of the bush. The only real mod I've made is to open out the bore to an interference fit for 16 SWG from 18 SWG and so leaves enough meat on the threaded length for some good strength. Another washer on the inside with a 4BA nut, retains a firm mounting, locked together with some wicked in Cyano.

 

The mounting point is a 1/4 birch ply plate braced with 1/8 spruce strips, with the bush threaded through the plate. Given the damping provided by the rake of the tail-wheel leg should take most of the rigidity out of the system. Overall weight and balance of the airframe seem within sensible limits still.

 

It remains to be seen how long it all lasts with the rough and tumble of sport flying, but I can see it becoming a general purpose hack for a few years.

 

If I can, I'll get started on the Sharkface for a bit of fun, with a soldered tinplate tank, couple of 9 gram servo's and a Cox Babe Bee diesel conversion and silencer, or a DC wasp with a silencer for power. All to be wrapped in doped tissue. Should be good for a laugh . Already brought a couple of KK nylon new / old stock props for the motors.

 

Cheers,

 

Chris.

[Big Bandit]

Hi Ian,

 

Welcome to the Forum, I must say that the Junior 60 is about the most docile model for a trainer that you could wish for. In saying that if you want to save it, try a modern trainer on a buddy lead if you've not flown for a while, just to get your hands and eyes back in before you commit your pride and joy to aviation.

 

Since I had a lay off it took a while to get back into it, even if I go a month or two without a session, I get a bit rusty on the sticks, but it soon comes back. they do say that if you don't crash once in a while your not trying hard enough .

 

The Merco is a good simple, honest motor, not as powerful as the modern offerings, but you shouldn't go wrong with that one for a vintage model. Any problems John Walton at Motorvation is the bloke, he has loads of Merco spares along with many other vintage motors including DC's, and also does a renovation service at very reasonable costs. If you want his contact details PM me.

 

You may also want to get you self a newer set of radio gear as well, but as many people are now changing to 2.4 gig gear, used 35 meg sets are going for a song and Galaxy models do some OK budget gear, worth a look.

 

Cheers,

 

Chris.

[Big Bandit]

Ian, Just a thought,

 

A couple of months ago, I won a Futaba Challenger 5 with RX and two servo's for £13.50. Tried it on an electric 3 Chanel Mulitplex Easy Cub and got almost out of sight range with a rock solid radio link, no glitching what so ever.

[Steve Hargreaves - Moderator]

That sounds good Chris.....gain extra marks for using a 4BA thread on a vintage model....

 

But I was thinking more about the actual tailwheel wire itself.....what stops this being forced up into the bush......?

[Big Bandit]

Hi Steve,

 

The brass you can see in the pici, is just a piece of brass tube soldered to the tail-wheel leg. This to do as you said, stopping the wire leg driving up through the bush. What you can see in the pici is the bush screwed along with the washer up to it's collar in the mounting plate.

 

My description may have not been as clear as it could be.

 

It's been a long day on my Greener Safer Driving course for work, and my boss will be well impressed with the instructors assessment of my performance , but I'm wrecked and just need some sleep.

 

Hope to get some more done before crimbo day.

 

Cheers all,

 

Chris.

[John Stephenson 2]

Hi Chris,

 

Following on from my earlier questions re covering - took the plunge yesterday and started on the tailplane of my model.

 

Went OK. Underneath are a few very small wrinkles but the top two halves and the fin have none.

 

I used the nylon dry with a few fold creases in it and stuck on one straight edge first, allowed 10 mins to dry then doped around remaining edges and pulled taut, occasionally stretching and pressing down on edges with my thumbs. Trimmed with razor blade (as you suggested). Any "furry" bits and loose nylon on the leading edges were easily stuck down with finger dipped in shrinking dope.

 

Photo is prior to applying 50-50 dope/thinners - will do this today when there's a beans can empty for mixing in!!

 

I enjoyed the covering process and am very pleased with the result. Will definitely use nylon again.

 

Thanks again, John

[Big Bandit]

Hi John,

 

It looks very good mate, you obviously have some newer dope than I have and it hasn't taken on a golden hue as mine has. It is quite satisfying when it works well and getting back to basics has it's own rewards.

 

The slightly golden colour of my effort has, I think given the model a vintage look without the clinically applied finish yesterday effect which I find pleasing and only hope I can keep it going when I apply the trim, time will tell.

 

Tomorrow I intend to hinge the surfaces and connect the closed loops for the rudder, I did get some done this morning before the annual get to the LMS before they close for Crimbo just to stock up on essential supplies to tide me over the holiday and the pressy deliveries. so it wasn't a good effort on the building front. Hope to post more tomorrow.

 

Cheers,

 

Chris.

[Bob Cotsford]

Chris, if you want that slight sepia hint of age you could try using polyurethane varnish to proof it. It always used to tint anything I tried to paint white back in the day.

[Big Bandit]

Hi Bob,

 

Good tip, If I can I want to spray the fuel proofer and I may be wrong but can Polyurethane be thinned with white spirit, I know it's fuel proof against methanol and nitro. It means I can do a semi mat finish which I like and would suit nicely.

 

Cheers,

 

Chris.

[Bob Cotsford]

The traditional Ronseal varnish was cleaned up with white spirit, maybe it's still the same formulation now.

[Big Bandit]

Hi Again Bob,

 

I'll give it a go, be a bit daft not to as it could temper down the trim as well to give that over all old but but properly done effect. I must admit I'm enjoying this one more than I've enjoyed building a model in a long time, just for the re-learning of using the techniques I used a lad all those years ago, but seem to have almost lost to more convenient alternatives. Although I feel that if I still had all of those old models they may not have been that impressive , maybe it's like looking at things through rose tinted glasses, we'll see.

 

Cheers,

 

Chris.

[Danny Fenton]

I think all of us are enjoying these old timers more than we thought we would.

 

What an earth will we do next year!

[Big Bandit]

Hi Danny,

 

It's going to be a hard one to follow for me, we could blame BEB for that . One of my flying buddies is more into Vintage than I am, he's just finished a Black Magic and is about to start on an Astro Hog, I think it'll be a fairly straight forward scale job for me. The Chipmunk or Tiger Moth appeal for a 70 - 90 FS or may be a 50 FS size Tipsy Nipper / Junior or similar.

Trouble is I've quite a few kits un started, maybe I'll just keep what interests me and off load the others on Ebay to make room for what I really want.

Cheers,

Chris.

[Bob Cotsford]

When I built the Eros I found I enjoyed the build a great deal, but the number of suitable days when you can really enjoy flying old timers are few and far between.

Yes, you can fly them in a breeze, but it can get nerve wracking and there are better types of model that are more suited to average conditions.

On the odd calm sunny summers evening though there's not much to beat pottering round on a whisp of throttle doing low fly-pasts, or up hunting for thermals with the sun highlighting the structure through the covering.

 

Re Ronseal - of course you will try it on a test piece first, won't you Chris? I'd hate to think of you lathering it on the model only to find things ain't what they used to be! It must be 20 or 30 years since I varnished a model, because of the yellowing effect.

 

Actually, I tell I lie, I finished one model in Mahogony floor seal, gave a lovely dard reddish finish to the untreated balsa!

Edited By Bob Cotsford on 24/12/2011 09:03:04

[Big Bandit]

Hi Bob,

 

My engine test stand is bolted to a piece of shelf from an old book case, Cheapo B&Q thing. That's fuel proofed with Ronseal and it works a treat, but I haven't tried thinning it yet just applied it with a brush straight from the tin. Proof against diesel and glow fuel and about 3 years old now.

 

Cheers,

 

Chris.

[Big Bandit]

Just a bit more done today before the festivities properly begin.

First of I've given the rudder and elevator a couple of coats more of thinned dope, and also epoxied the fin to the fuselage. It's important to remove the area of nylon where the fin will glue to the fuselage by cutting through with a scalpel blade then soaking a bit of thinners through the nylon strip only. After about 5 minutes the strip of nylon will just peel off. I used 15 minute epoxy for this joint. Later when I cover the fuselage sides I'll try to lay a strip of nylon either side of the fin to fuselage joint to tidy things up.

 

 

Tape the rudder to the fin and mark out the stitching holes for the hinges.

 

 

Drill the holes and remove the tape, I used a 1.5 mm drill.

 

The boot thread I used for the hinges was dipped in cyano at one end to make it stiff enough to feed through the holes easily. The other end has a knot just too big to pull through the hole easily.A drop of thin cyano holds the end secure while threading the rest of the hinge.

 

The completed hinge has very free movement, and is very strong. The thread I used is old boot thread that I've had for years, only problem is I only have red. A spot of thin cyano in each hole when the tread is tight locks it all together

The tread is fed through top hole in the fin through the hinge to the other side then trough the opposite hole in the rudder, back through the hinge to the other side and then the next hole down in the fin and so on until the hinge is complete.

 

The closed loop horn can be a commercial one, but I've cut one from glass fibre PCB edges smoothed and drilled. The cutout is for clearance with the fin and the hole in the middle was just there in the only piece I had and had been etched clean. 1.5 mm holes for the closed loop cable is OK.

 

Cut a small slot in the rudder and glue the horn in, connect up the closed loop, and it's job done.

 

Use the servo tester to check full and free movement both ways and that the servo isn't laboring and buzzing.

 

 

Exercise the servo to both stops, and note any problems such as laboring which can be caused by the closed loop cable being too tight. I ended up slacking the cables off quite a bit including the tail-wheel cables. Now it's really free and smooth, and only needs the movement restricting a bit as that is excessive.

 

 

 

Leaving it going on the servo tester on auto for about ten minutes is enough to check every thing out.

Now the control runs are sorted it just leaves the elevator to be hinged next and the sides covering. I find it's much easier to sort out the control runs properly while they are easy to get at, before sealing them in.

 

I'm having tomorrow off and couple of days doing the visiting thing so I wont be back on it until mid next week..

 

So a very happy Christmas to everyone and wishing you all a very happy and prosperous new year .

 

Cheers,

 

Chris.

Edited By Big Bandit on 24/12/2011 17:36:18

[Anthony Billings]

Hi Chris,

enjoy your break, that hinge stiching, can you confirm that it forms a figure of eight, and how tight do you pull the thread and still get unrestricted movement ?

Cheers

Tony

[Big Bandit]

Hi Tony,

 

Yes it does follow a figure of eight, through a hole in one of the surfaces, then through the hinge gap between the surfaces, then though the opposite hole in the other surface, back through the hinge gap and so on. Some people tend to go through the same holes again in the opposite direction so the tread looks as if it's a continuous zigzag, but apart from aesthetics it's only other function is the thread stays tighter as you work along the hinge. I tend to pull the thread tight and drop a dot of cyano in the hole locking the thread almost instantly, and i do this as I go.

 

I have to say it's the most free hinge you can get, either way the surface will just drop under it's own weight, with no binding what so ever.

 

Have a good Christmas,

 

Cheers,

 

Chris.

[Danny Fenton]

it is an excellent hinge, just be careful if you go over with a coat of dope to seal the holes, any thread in the hinge gap will restrict it , don't ask how I know

Cheers

Danny

[Big Bandit]

Hi Danny,

 

Your hinging looks neater than mine, did you thread through the hinge gap then go round again to get the zigzag.

 

Cheers,

 

Chris.

[Big Bandit]

Hi All,

 

Now the festivities are over for a while it was time to do a bit more. so first off I hinged the elevator the same as the rudder. Mark out on tape, drill.

 

 

And sew, just the elevator horn to fit now.

 

 

I also managed to cover a fuselage side. this I've just doped.

 

 

I must say the Flair nylon that Ive brought isn't the same as the stuff I found in the loft, that I do remember buying from Modelcraft in Leicester when they first opened in 1975. The weave in the new stuff is much closer and doesn't take so much dope. It seems to be drying out OK though.

 

It just looks too white compared to the rest of the stuff I've covered so will have to tone it down with some of my old dodgy dope. There's also some trim to go on yet and that will help. It just goes to show the differences in the same product and how it can change over the years.

 

It's still not sticking down properly at some of the edges either, but it's not too much of a problem, a lick of full strength dope will see to that.

 

 

That's it for that session, I did try to upload the photo's yesterday evening but the whole system was too slow, probably something to do with shared bandwidth. Even one photo at a time failed and I checked my broadband speed at 27.1/2 meg , upload 1.1/2 meg so it's fast enough at my end. I'll try to get more done today, but I have to do some shopping so it won't be a lot.

 

Cheers,

 

Chris.

Edited By Big Bandit on 28/12/2011 06:04:51

[Big Bandit]

Hi All,

 

Shopping done, and guess what for . I've just brought all of the balsa for the Sharkface. £17 quid and that will do three of them at least , got two motors ready just need to find another , Ohhhh there's about 20 in the spare bedroom , I'm sorted.

Any road up time for another session.

Cover the other side of the fuselage. just the same as the first side, full strength dope and wick thinners through the nylon to reactivate.

 

Another little job while the dope dries is to seal the fuel tank against the bulkhead, for this I use general purpose silicone clear is good , but I have only have the blue flange sealant from the bike. It will do the job OK.

 

 

This is to stop gunge finding there way into the RC area of the model and to hold the tank in properly.

 

And check the engine fits on it's mounting plate. into the fus This one needs a bit of trimming to give the spinner a bit of clearance but otherwise OK. Notice the clearance for the throttle arm which is essential.

 

 

Check it with a prop and spinner. Jobs a goodun and I'm happy.

 

 

And the other side done. So the fuselage is not far off complete, more dope, trim, throttle linkage, a mod to the undercart mounting and it's done.

 

So it aint far off, and tomorrow it's clear the building board down and a general tidy of the shed. If I can I'll get to Punctilio Model Spot for some colour trim and do some more. In the mean time I'll start the Sharkface now I have the balsa sorted as I cant be bothered sorting through the shed for my stock.

 

Anyone viewing thanks for the interest and please feel free to comment, ask questions, give advise, criticizes.

 

Cheers,

 

Chris.