F3A pattern models

[Alan Cantwell]

Posted by S-R-B on 14/08/2012 10:25:59:

What is going on with YT International? They seem to be out of stock of everything. Worrying...

there are now 150 models in the range, not all can be extensively stocked, we just cannot get enough, many are sold out before they get here, plus, there are dificulties with suppliers, the U.S. gets priority, even with the stuff designed by YT!!, have no fear, YT is safe and sound,  it is also end of season,    there is a big christmas delivery on the cards,   

 

Edited By Alan Cantwell on 14/08/2012 18:13:05

[Simon B]

Good stuff!

[Stefan Hafner]

Posted by Delta Whiskey on 14/08/2012 15:02:34:,

"mine is waiting for a repair though Stefan from a stupid flight I did in strong winds and landed heavily short of the strip"

Sadly mine was wrecked recently so i've decided to rebuild it, but 50% bigger and with a 90 2 stroke, as where I fly out here in spain is really very hot and at about 800m altitude, its amazing how much power you lose due to the heat and altitude.  I'm drawing it up in CAD at the moment so will be laser cut as before.

 

Edited By Stefan Hafner on 15/08/2012 13:03:04

[pete taylor]

Does anyone know if Elation Models are still around? They did some great f3a kits in various sizes but I haven't seen any ads recently.

[Ultymate]

Elation models are HERE

[Mark Powell 2]

Bob,

I know. Very much fancy the PB models Crescent Bullet. The old ones were not always fast. Wolfgang Matt's 1974 Super Star had a very thick wing. Thus high drag, giving 'constant speed though manoevres' as drag increase/deceases with the square of the speed. Built one recently and it flew brilliantly. Smooth as anything and goes exactly where you point it. It does not constantly fight you. You don't even realise most planes do that unti you try one of these. Unfortunately I wiped it out after only four days. Hit the ground at exactly the same spot and under exactly the same circumstances (Interference, it really was) on a flat out low pass over the concrete runway, as the one I built in 1975. So we both laughed - my flying mate was there then too. Immediatelt went and bought sone 2.4 radio. But you don't build model planes as a way of saving money. Soon built another one

Cost of IC versus electric? I build both. See 'saving money' above

Edited By Mark Powell 2 on 15/08/2012 13:55:55

[Delta Whiskey]

Posted by Stefan Hafner on 15/08/2012 13:00:50:

Sadly mine was wrecked recently so i've decided to rebuild it, but 50% bigger and with a 90 2 stroke, as where I fly out here in spain is really very hot and at about 800m altitude, its amazing how much power you lose due to the heat and altitude. I'm drawing it up in CAD at the moment so will be laser cut as before.

Make me one too please !

[David Rayner]

Hi Tony, Just to add to your choices. I have started flying a Black Horse Gladiator as my first step into this style of flying. It was simple to assemble and flys well with an SC52FS though would take more power. If you looking for a low cost and non scary step into pattern I can recomend it.

[Bob Cotsford]

Posted by Mark Powell 2 on 15/08/2012 13:55:14:

Wolfgang Matt's 1974 Super Star had a very thick wing. Thus high drag, giving 'constant speed though manoevres' as drag increase/deceases with the square of the speed. Built one recently and it flew brilliantly. Smooth as anything and goes exactly where you point it. It does not constantly fight you. You don't even realise most planes do that unti you try one of these. Unfortunately I wiped it out after only four days. Hit the ground at exactly the same spot and under exactly the same circumstances (Interference, it really was) on a flat out low pass over the concrete runway, as the one I built in 1975. So we both laughed - my flying mate was there then too. Immediatelt went and bought sone 2.4 radio. But you don't build model planes as a way of saving money. Soon built another one

my Joker was in the same mould, maybe not such a thick section, at least not until it met Mother Earth a little aggressively. Everything was more squat after that.

Here it is before -

[Mark Powell 2]

Hi Bob,

The Joker looks very nice. It was, I believe, a bit later than the others. The most sophisticated of all was Hanno Prettners's Magic. I have the plan of that, and the original RCM&E article. It is simple enough to build, though to do it properly you need a rear exhaust two stroke (MVVS do the only ones easily obtained in the UK, but I have heard mixed reports of them). Plus a tuned pipe, and a swan neck manifold to move the (fully enclosed ) tuned pipe to the top of the fuselage from the inverted engine, so it clears the nose retract and the tank. Plus the snap flaps and the anhedral tailplane. None of it is particularly difficult, but can I really be bothered?

The last proper kits I saw advertiised for these sort of things were from Dave Smith Models a few years ago. Not yeard of them for a while.

The PB/Crescent Tornado is quite nice, but is was never the 'full on' thing.

The best looking of all was the 'Atlanta'.kitted by MK.Search on 'Classic Pattern Planes'. It has a two piece mid wing, an inverted engine, with the pipe fully enclosed in the fuselage under the wing. The nose retract unit is to one side, and tilted both sideways and longitudinally to clear the pipe when retracted but come down centrally. Again, can I be bothered?

[Bob Cotsford]

Blue Jay

Edited By Bob Cotsford on 15/08/2012 16:14:02

[Stefan Hafner]

Posted by Delta Whiskey on 15/08/2012 14:05:29

Make me one too please !

PM sent

[Steve Dunning]

From what I have read, this is probably the best place to start. Following on from flyin's at Sleap, Stow Maries and Festival of Flight, things can now move on. Firstly there will be another day at Festival of Flight in 2013 (Staurday, two day event) and long term, a vintage Nats in 2014. Another couple of events in 2013 would give a good basis for the future. Could people let me know interest and where to start a vintage F3A thread.

[kc]

Steve,

Surely it should be Classic F3A not vintage which has a hint of slow flying stuff for elderly chaps with slow reactions.  Why not put it right here on ModelFlying?

Anyone interested in building classic pattern models should look at the Trenton website which has dozens of articles with plans for many popular aerobatic models. Mostly clear enough to print from I reckon. This site seems likely to disappear soon because its not been updated recently, so download anything you will ever need and save it to a disc!

Edited By kc on 01/12/2012 16:39:52

[Bob Cotsford]

Hi Steve, do you know if Sleap will be on the calendar for 2013?

[Delta Whiskey]

Posted by Stefan Hafner on 11/06/2012 19:25:09:

If you can still get them I would recomend the Pilot models Seduction Freestyle, flies great and very smooth.

I'm on my third one now and still love flying it

I would 2nd that but I don't think you'll find them anywhere, in fact I was flying mine today ! Check out the cap !

Edited By Delta Whiskey on 01/12/2012 19:13:33

[Reno Racer]

I'll also jump on the classic pattern band wagon. There are some really great and precise flying models from the 70s, many of which are been released as kits and ARFs.

Ok, they don't have the funky GRP fuseflages and diffusers and so on (although i note PB will be bringing out a GRP fuse for the Bullet), but the Bridi designs al fly well and i've seen a Kaos been flown everyweekend for 2 years - its a very precise pattern aeroplane. I've similarly started building a Sig Kougar.

Of course many as US based kit firms so shipping and tax may be high, but.... KAOs plans are available and apart from getting some foam cores, the rest is a simple box fuse. This germany based shop also has some older pattern kits.

[Bob Cotsford]

I have the Wega Blue Angel from Sunshine Modellbau on the bench at the moment, it's quite a basic kit, just the glass fus, balsa veneered foam wings and tail plus the wood needed to complete it.  It only has two A3 size layout drawings and no instructions so you do need to be confident in your building skills and ability to work things out for yourself but the components are very nicely made.

One thing to be aware of - the owners of the shop don't speak English. Google translate got me through the ordering process though.

Edited By Bob Cotsford on 02/12/2012 18:20:28

[cymaz]

World Models Spot On 50..great when set up properly. Got an OS 55AX in mine, super plane

10/10

[Steve Dunning]

The only reason I used the term 'vintage' is that the proposed 'Nats' in 2014 is termed that way. The proposal for that event is a cut off of 1979. This would leave some very nice models out of the equation. I would like it to go to 1986, just prior to the size of models increasing for 4 stroke motors and a 2 metre limit on size.

I would like to consider three 'classes', designs up to 1969, 1979 and 1986, the latter being an early turnaround pattern. Schedules appropriate to all three era's would give those wishing to have their flying abilities tested ample opportunity for this. Those wanting to just fly would still be able to do so.

As far as power is concerned, I would hope that modellers would keep to the spirit of the events and not try and produce over-powered 'bombs'. Electric should not be dismissed, it's the models that are the main point of all this. Six cell set-up's should provide ample power for the model size being contemplated.

As Bob has stated, kits are available but so are plans, in those days, World Champions were only too willing to share their design with the rest of us.

I look forward to hearing feedback from like minded pilots.

[kc]

Well why dont we call it Classic Pattern especially if the dates are different.....lets get away from all that confusing F3 numbering and make it distinct from the slow flying vintage planes ( nothing against vintage I fly an electric vintage style model as an everyday flyer.)

I am very much in favour of the classic plane idea. My favourite would be an electric version of one of the smaller models not intended for competition.

[Martyn K]

Whatever you go for, count me in, my preferred cut off would be 1979. Classic Pattern is fine with me.

Martyn

[Steve Dunning]

What do people think about this?

[Martyn K]

I could live with that... not sure about brown and yellow though - I appreciate that it is a very 70's domestic coulor scheme but I would prefer Red White Blue or Black or anything except brown...

Martyn

[Chris Poulton]

hey Steve, have you guys actually formed this association? plan to start building the Rapture 50 right after the new year, you may hear from me with a million questions

anyone wanting a 50 size pattern model could do MUCH worse than buying one of these. especially if like me, you have developed an allergy to pallet-wood arf's!! 2 landings and the u/c rips out of most arf's.