Welcome to UKCAA

[Steve Dunning]

I have a plan that could be copied for the Kwik Fli III and I have done foam wings for people for that design.

A DVD I have from action from 1986 shows the Super Dalotel (flown by Graham Briggs). Also on there is the Challenger (RCM&E plan, 1984) and Ken Binks' Adagio which I am finalising kits for (already done the Pacemaker).

Hope this helps, looks like a lot of building is going to take place over the winter!

[Andy Green]

My first F3A was a DSM Dalotel, then an (I think) Andy Nichols Illusion.

Long time a go now, I have some photos somewhere.

Andy

[Bob Cotsford]

I think DSM went out of business a few years ago. I nearly bought a second-hand Dalotel from the bring'n'buy at one of the shows this year, it might have been Weston Park. I know Dave Boddington did a plan for one, maybe one day I'll get round to building one.

[Dean]

Sounds very interesting. Would my kamco kavalier count?

if so I would be interested.

Dean

[Martyn K]

Hi Dean

As far as I can see the Kavalier was originally designed in the 70's or possibly early 80's so I guess the answer is that its the right era - along with other venerables such as the Gangster (still available from Mick Reeves).

Martyn

[Dean]

Thanks Martyn

it is not quite finished yet, bit more incentive to finish it off now!!

Dean

[Martyn K]

kc et al.

I have a pseudo copy of the Kwik Fli III plans available from my website. They are not originals, they have been redrawn but would be adequate and hopefully fill the need.. A very simple classic Kraft build

KWIK FLI III WING

KWIK FLI III FUS

Martyn

[Martyn K]

I have got a few other plans in my e-collection. I'll get them published with downloadable links in the next day or so.. watch this space - or probably a new thread..

Martyn

[kc]

Bob Cotsford mentioned the Boddington Dalotels. These are proper scale Dalotels- the 47 inch was in a 1986 RCSAQ and the 74 inch 1994 RCSA. These are scale models so not really Classic Aerobatic and anyway outside the dates!

The Dave Smith models were called Super Dalotels and were really nothing like a Dalotel but they were just aerobatic models. I think the only similarity was the name and the tapered wing outline.

Many of these English aerobatic models had tapered wings made from foam and the plans didnt often show the wing ribs for balsa construction. So you have to cut your own foam wing or find a supplier or develop your own wing. However many USA plans had all the tapered wing ribs shown on the plan ( Dirty Birdy, Kaos and all the Bridi designs ) which might suit modern builders better. Kwik Fli3, Striker, Flea Fli etc had parallel chord wings which makes construction easier for the less experienced scratch builder.

[kc]

The main thing about classic aerobatic is you can build your own plane from plans and dont need fancy tools or a kit because they are mostly simple square ply formers and balsa which is rounded off to give a neat fuselage. No need for fancy CNC cut parts. ( the rounding off as in Dirty Birdy etc is quick and simple with a razor plane- in 10 minutes you transform a square box to a nice round fuselage. Magic! )

This is a list of plans from RCME & RM Plans in the Handbook for 1983/4 which seem to be classic aerobatic to me. ( Now called MyHobbyStores )

Magic by Hannu Prettner RC 1432 62 inch)

Curare by Hannu Prettner RC1323 64 inch ( also from Model Airplane News )

Arrow by Wolfgang Matt RC1387 63 inch

Slik Fli by Phil Kraft RC 1035 61 inch

Tiger Tail by Ron Chidgey RC 1185 64 inch

Striker by P Russell RC984 59 inch

Atlas by Wolfgang Matt RC1283 65 inch Also from MAN

Mercura by Clive Weller RM255 56 inch

Some of the smaller aerobatic designs could be suitable for electric

Flea Fli RC897 ( new number -was RC 987) 39 inch span (also from MAN )

Spirit by R Spreadbury RC1436 40 inch

Mach20 by K Hart RC1381 42 inch

Mini Atlas by D Parker RC1315 51 inch

Jetta by Mike Delacole RC1412 55inch

Rythm35 by Clive Weller RC1170 54inch

Millibar by D Day RC1098 52 inch ( 90 percent size Bar Fli )

Zippy by S Bannister RC1260 42 inch

Plans from RCM plans in USA which I think are pre 84 You can check on their website which date they were published in RCM ( most of these older plans are about 12 to 14 dollars about 8 or 9 pounds seems a bargain - mostly beautifully drawn )

Dirty Birdy

Kaos

Super Kaos

Super Kaos Jnr

Sunfly 3 and 4

UFO

Candy

Kwik Fli 1 and 2

Plans from Model Airplane News in USA

Kwik Fli 3

Flea Fli

Mach 1

Orion

There must be many more but those are the ones I know should still be available..

[Peter Christy]

Funnily enough, I was just talking to one of the GBRCAA guys about this today! The BMFA handbook actually has rules for a vintage RC aerobatics contest, though the cut-off date is 1964! But that would include classics like the Taurus and Orion, and from Britain, the Uproar! The rules also specify cross-flow engines only, which could be a problem. I have a pre-Blackhead Webra 61, which would be fine in a Taurus, but probably too much for an Orion. I have an Irvine 46, which would be ideal in that, but is (of course!) Schnuerle ported!

I've even got my Bonner Digimite working, though I would be reluctant to use the original airborne pack! It would be a shame to damage it! But I do have a home-made, compatible receiver!

All I have to do now is find time to build a Taurus or an Orion.......!!!

--

Pete

[Martyn K]

kc - clearly the group historian.

Encyclopaedic knowledge.

Thanks

Martyn

[minty morton]

What about a re-designed old favorite - I'm thinking Mick Reeves Gangster 63 lite here

[Bob Cotsford]

Yes, thanks kc, I must admit I thought the Boddington Dalotels were earlier. That's a pretty comprehensive list though you missed Giezendanner's Marabu The AirAge site also has a few others like Sweetater, Orion and Arrow.

[kc]

Thanks Martyn & Bob, I just try to use my collection of RC magazines to keep the information in circulation. Hopefully this will promote real aeromodelling i.e. building your own plane and then flying it.

To me Classic Aerobatic is not about rules, cut off dates & competitions but about building a traditional aerobatic model - functional, sleek but looks are secondary to performance. It is the spirit that counts. Models built from balsa and ply, maybe foam. Things you can get plans for and cut yourself from wood. Or traditional kits where you do most of the building and shaping for yourself. So the old traditional Gangster 63 ( also 49 & 52 ) is clearly within the spirit. I suppose the modern Gangster 63 lite is a CNC cut liteply jigsaw which is not quite what we are about, but it scrapes in because it looks like the traditional G63. The scale Dalotels just fall outside the scope of Classic in my opinion.

But we should just build and fly what suits us best. Maybe I will build an old Flea Fli and fit a brushless motor with Lipo and 2.4 Ghz radio and who is to say its less suitable for Classic than a tissue & dope Gangster Lite with Merco 61 on 35 Mhz? At this stage it's up to the individual I think, maybe for competitions it will become necessary to have definite dates, rules and eligability. ( Note that in the USA they have certain eligible models listed as Classic.)

Edited By kc on 09/12/2012 13:10:50

[Martyn K]

Just seen that RCM&E have 'spotted' us on Facebook. It will be interesting to see if that generates further interest or comment..

Martyn

[Bob Cotsford]

Snapped up another old-timer yesterday which should be with me in a day or two - an unbuilt kit for a Frog Mustfire, thanks Harry. 68" of built up balsa 60's style. I think one or two projects may just get shuffled down the queue to make way for it

Think AstroHog but more slinky!  Like this example:

Edited By Bob Cotsford on 11/12/2012 13:30:26

[Martyn K]

That looks very nice.. Not seen one before.

Martyn

[Bob Cotsford]

It's one of those models that I lusted after as a yoof but could never afford at the time. Egg-box wing structure for those with a long memory, ie a full depth spar that's slotted half depth for the ribs. Wooden beam engine bearers, so it should be easy to slot a 4 stroke in which is handy as I have an old SC65FS lying around that probably makes as much power as an old Merco 61 used to.

[Steve Dunning]

From what I read, it seems that the concensus is that we look at the prime requisite as being the appreciation of the early aerobatic designs. Meetings to be, initially, on a fly-in basis with the availability of appropriate schedules for those who wish to test their flying ability a little more.

Trophies could be for Concours d' elegance and 'Pilot's Pilot' on any single meet. This was used when I ran an event at this years Festival of Flight and it went down very well.

The designs offer the club flyer a chance to fly superb designs, the meetings give a chance to learn the finer art of aerobatics from more experienced fliers.

KC has given us a range of designs, easy to build, and a range of sizes to suit everybody.

When some dates have been finalised I'll bring them to peoples attention here.

Good building over the winter.

[Bob Cotsford]

Steve, do you have any idea yet what areas these events would be in?

[Phil Green]

I'm in - Fred Dunn Astro Hog on Orbit reeds, and a Pete Russell 'Striker' on this:

...do we get bonus points for 'period' radio? :D

Cheers

Phil

Edited By Phil Green on 12/12/2012 12:50:39

Edited By Phil Green on 12/12/2012 12:52:18

[Bob Cotsford]

Hi Phil, what's the cost of the encoder for that, and is it fussy about pot values? I can't remember whether my Horizon tx has the original 5ks or whether I replaced them with 50Ks for the Digicon or a similar encoder. That conversion would probably make it the first reliable Horizon set on record.

[Steve Dunning]

Hi Bob

Paul's looking at a normal fly-in at Sleap and a Classic Aerobatic event at another field close to Sleap. Festival of Flight is at Barkston. Possibility of another in the 'North' and one in the 'South'.

Should be a good year.

Steve

[kc]

The list I gave was just a list of all the plans that seem eligible and still available. It's up to Steve or however organises to say what's eligible for their event. Better to know before we start building!

To my list I would add the Bar Fli by Phil Kraft which is avail from MyhobbyStores as RC950 ( note the spelling there is another model with rather similar name ) this is a really different style of model & is a fairly cheap plan too at 12.50 pounds. There is also the smaller Millibar

Those of us who registered for e-mails from MyHobbyStores will have received an e-mail with a discount code for half price on all plans until midnight Friday. UNMISSABLE BARGAIN!