Organising Training.

[Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator]

In our club we have eight instructors and with a membership of around 50-60 of which maybe 5-10 are learners at any given time that's quite a good ratio of instructors to learners.

Learners are not allocated a specific instructor and they are free to go with whoever they wish. There is no formal instruction time and the onus is on the learner to approach one of the instructors and ask to be taken up - a request which of course is pretty well always granted! Bear in mind we fly in a public place and so no one is allowed to fly solo (without an instructor at their elbow or on a buddy) until they have their A-cert. So beginners are totally dependent on instructors in order to fly at all.

This system has been in place at the club since "Adam was a lad" and it seems (to us at least) to have served us pretty well. Afterall most of "us" learnt to fly under that system - and if it was good enough then, surely its good enough now?

But is it?

Lately one or two learners have raised tiny "problemettes" - nothing serious but enough to get me wondering "are we a bit stuck in our ways and do other clubs do it better/differently".

For example we had one beginner who was a bit unhappy because he'd come to field and stood for some time and no one offered him any instruction. Now I'm 100% sure that had he asked any one of the many instructors present they would have been very happy to take him up for a lesson - or even several. It seems reasonable to us that he take the initiative - but is it?

Another one is a beginner asking "When are instructors available? I have been to the field two or three times only to find no instructors there". Well I can remember that happening to me when I was learning! I just accepted it as part of being the "new boy" - but should I of? I always answer this one by saying "Weekends and Wednesday night in the summer months you'll always find instructors - other times, if I were you, I wouldn't come unless you've made a specific arrangement with a particular instructor.

When I was learning I buddied up with one or two specific instructors and they would ring me if they were going to the field at an "non-standard" time to see if I could get down there for a bit of extra instruction (perhaps they felt I needed it!)

But is this "informal" or "casual" approach OK in the 21st century? Should we have a specific "beginners session" when instructors make themselves available on a rota to guarantee tuition? Or is that an unfair burden on instructors given that they do this for the love of the hobby - no other reason?

I genuinely have no answers here and would be very interested to hear what other clubs do. Also to hear from current learners - what are your expectations of the process? Do you expect a more professional approach? Or is the casual amateur "hit and miss" style of it all part of the charm?

BEB

Edited By Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 05/04/2013 15:16:24

[colin watson]

it sounds like a very friendly and helpful Club with lots of people wanting to help teach newcomers. my personal experience newcomers can't expect an instructor on tap but telephone calls or arranged times work better. i am a member of two clubs the smaller one has a good training system the other bigger club i beleive has a terible system as no instructors have volanteered for the job. therefore they offer little or no instruction and some of the flying practices are questionable. i have tried to help many a new member but as i have a busy work load and only one day free a week (mid week) i am unable to spend lots of time teaching.

[The Wright Stuff]

I think each club will be different, and also the perceived approachability of instructors will depend upon the respective ages of trainees and instructors, as well as how socially active the club is. As a teenager, I found it difficult to approach other members to ask for training. It takes regular, frequent practice to achieve confidence, and timetabled training is probably the best approach to this, IF the resources are available within the club.

Having said that, I think the most important thing is honesty: there are too many clubs that promise intensive training, but then find they do not have enough instructors to fulfil that promise.

[graeme jones]

BEB - I know what you mean and like you I have no easy answers. I'm retired so I find it easier to fly mid-week, but that's no good to instruct someone who works Monday to Friday. Could your club perhaps make a list of when each instructor and pupil is available? Would it then be possible to match up availabilities? One thing I've found is that it's better for instructor and pupil to get them to solo standard ASAP rather than have it strung out for a few months (or even years in some cases). 50 flights in 4 weeks will usually get someone to solo whereas 100 flights in 12 months might not.

Graeme

[dbflyer]

At our club we have instructors who have agreed and committed themselves to our training programme. There are 5 instructors and we have agreed to be placed on a rota. This means that each turn comes round every 5 weeks and it is known when the instructing duty will come round. The trainee has a copy of the rota and/or can access it via the website. We have a club trainer model, a Tutor 40 but all instructors seem to use their own. The trainee's requirement is to 'book in' with the instructor of the day before 21:00hrs, by phone, on the Thursday before he wants training, usually the Sunday morning after. There is no charge for training whatsoever but because some trainees used to turn up with 3 year old fuel that gave engine trouble, we make a £2 levy towards the cost of the fuel supplied by the instructor. That is £2 no matter how many flights that trainee has in the morning and usually it is always 2 or more. So if there are 4 trainees the instructor gets £8 towards the cost of his fuel supplied. We also have a record card system that we note the trainee's progress and the trainee is encouraged to bring it with him each time he attends for training so the next week's instructor knows how he is progressing and where to begin from.

[Andy48]

When I first went down to our club and asked for help, one member insisted on checking my 35mhz frequency, would not believe the frequency printer on the crystal carrier, and insisted on removing the crystal from its holder. Then none the wiser, he put it back, having bu$$$$ up the crystal. Thankfully I had rechecked the range.

A few years later when I dared venture back I did go to the training night. This was a hit amd miss affair when I might get one, possibly two flights, rarely more. One problem was that non members were encouraged to come down and also have a go on training night, so sometimes there would be more of these than actual club members learning to fly. It lacked organisation and structure, with different instructors and no solid sequence of development.

Training night was a pretty torrid experience, as some members were unhappy about not being able to fly on training night and held a vigil at the field entrance watching each training session like hawks. One of our two examiners who was part of this vigil complained that I flew out of bounds, so every flight was far more tense than needed.

Eventually I gave up training night and simply sought out members who would help during the day. Thankfully I had my own trainer and a buddy system, but I was limited to mode 2 flyers. Thanks to the fantastic support from these members I did eventually get my A certificate.

Even taking my test with the other examiner was difficult. I had to retake part of the test "just to be sure" as some of the protestors were down at the field at that time, and I might have just flown over the corner of a no fly zone, though it was debatable.

[flugfan]

Gosh Martin - thats sounds absolutely dreadful! Reading this I realise how grateful I am to the two old gits who turn up every sunday, take on all comers and have trained dozens of model flyers over the years. The rule is that you should phone the day before so that they know whether they will have students or be flying for pleasure.. Is there any way I can arrange a model flying medal for them both I wonder?

[Chris Bott - Moderator]

Our club arrangements are pretty much like yours BEB. Only club nominated instructors can instruct, but mostly that means any B cert pilot who shows an interest in instructing.

So, trainees usually turn up and hope an instructor will be there. Some make arrangements with individual instructors, but because of the weather, most instructors won't make a definite commitment.

I've often wondered if we could communicate better, we have a club forum where instructors could drop a note to say they are going, but hardly anyone uses the forum.

There's an unwritten rule that Sunday mornings are the best time to find someone with Saturday morning a close second.

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

Posted by Martin Phillips on 05/04/2013 19:09:15:

When I first went down to our club and asked for help, one member insisted on checking my 35mhz frequency, would not believe the frequency printer on the crystal carrier, and insisted on removing the crystal from its holder. Then none the wiser, he put it back, having bu$$$$ up the crystal. Thankfully I had rechecked the range.

To be fair to your club member, the whole point of crystals is/was that they were interchangeable and what was marked on the carrier might not have been correct. I learnt this lesson when a newcomer came up to the club and was being helped to set up by another member. He'd been given the 60 peg - and when I finished flying I went over to assist as I was due to be his instructor. A query was raised about his gear as some glitching had been evident and when I started checking I found that his crystal was marked 35.060 - of course, he'd assumed the 60 was his channel...

My frequency? 66....so I was rather glad that he'd at least been briefed not to extend his aerial in the pits!

I do think it's a shame your club members weren't able to come to a better compromise. Personally, I don't see any justification for not mixing training and club flying as you're teaching people to be able to fly in company - a bit like teaching someone to drive in a car park and then only letting them loose on the roads after their test. I'd imagine that there were divided opinions on this when the training evenings were arranged which were never resolved before the practice started?

We allocate a primary instructor who will normally fly with a pupil (they should liaise to arrange mutual times) although they're welcome to fly with another instructor if they can't get together. Once off the buddy lead, we allow them to fly accompanied by any A certificate holder to practice and reinforce their learning although they would mostly fly with their instructor.

[Andy48]

Posted by Martin Harris on 05/04/2013 20:36:32:

Posted by Martin Phillips on 05/04/2013 19:09:15:

When I first went down to our club and asked for help, one member insisted on checking my 35mhz frequency, would not believe the frequency printer on the crystal carrier, and insisted on removing the crystal from its holder. Then none the wiser, he put it back, having bu$$$$ up the crystal. Thankfully I had rechecked the range.

To be fair to your club member, the whole point of crystals is/was that they were interchangeable and what was marked on the carrier might not have been correct. I learnt this lesson when a newcomer came up to the club and was being helped to set up by another member. He'd been given the 60 peg - and when I finished flying I went over to assist as I was due to be his instructor. A query was raised about his gear as some glitching had been evident and when I started checking I found that his crystal was marked 35.060 - of course, he'd assumed the 60 was his channel...

Not the same point you are making. My JR transmitter had the FREQUENCY clearly printed on the carrier together with a big T for transmitter, not the channel. I even had an old RCME freebie plastic card with me that gave the conversion from frequencies to channels listed. Frankly what he did was sheer stupidity. If you ever try removing the crystal from its carrier all you will find is the same frequency printed on the can. Static can easily damage a crystal, as can yanking it out of its holder by its legs.

[MikeS]

Ok this is a difficult one to answer.

On thing to remember this is a hobby and of course we encourage new members to join and fly. Turning up and introducing yourself is par the course. However it took me nearly a month to buck up the courage to go down to a club when I first got back in to the hobby some five years ago. I have ADHD and sometimes this plays a part in my ability to approach people and make conversation. I often wonder how many people like me want join a club but do not.

I can remember when I flew at a club in a public park the amount people who would talk to you about the hobby and would ask questions. Some of them would come back with a plane under their arm and want help others didn't come back.

I remember when I was being trained. The instructor was happy to help but it had been mentioned to me to only ask for one flight as the instructor of course also wanted to fly and did not want his day taken up by beginner pilots.

Maybe I am old school but how do I see this hobby. After a little pondering to me its all about the banter with other club mates, the walk of shame banter, the greaser of a landing cheer, the pat on the back when you fix another members problem etc. This is what it is all about. The hobby should be fun and also to have a good laugh but at the same time safe.

We have nominated instructors at out club and they meet and fly with anyone wishing to learn or practise for their A or B cert's. I think it works well as it is, that is how the hobby works.

Mike

 

Edited By MikeS on 05/04/2013 22:32:33

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

Posted by Martin Phillips on 05/04/2013 21:16:07:

Not the same point you are making.

I understand that but I suppose the point I'm really trying to make is that as a totally non-professional organisation, the average club relies not only on the committee and senior members (although they can have an important influence) but also on the attitudes of the bulk of the members - including the new ones.

In the case I quoted, a well-meaning but not particularly technically savvy member (although a model builder of some repute within the club) had gladly offered his services to the new member. Hopefully, your crystal fiddler was acting in good faith, maybe unfamiliar with JR crystals and trying to protect both other members' and your own interests - although of course there will always be exceptions. I'd certainly agree that pulling a crystal out by its legs is not the act of someone with much technical nous!

I hope your club is a happier place than in the days you were learning - feelings must have been running pretty high by the sound of it!

[Max50]

I'm a beginer, although i've been flying 4years. ( don't put enough flying in ).Our club is the same as BEB. No allocated instructors. You just turn up, as you know the days when they are most likely to be there, and either ask, or they come over to you. Most of the time you don't have to ask, as they just come over and ask if you are ready to go flying.

There's no actual fixed training schedule, you just practice what you think you need to, and then given advise or shown on what you have done, or could have done better. I haven't done any aerobatics ( intentionally ), just practiced the basic schedule.

One thing we may be having this year, is an 'A' test training day, with the examiners, which sounds good.Maybe an organised flight with an examiner may be a good thing, and then he can tell you if you are ready,or not for the test, and maybe settle any nerves, if any.

I'm afraid, ( in my mind ) , that i view the club examiners as the elite - the top men - the numero uno of the club. I'm not nervous at my flying , just nervous at the thought of flying with them, ( Ohh I,m not worthy, I'm not worthy ).

[Max50]

Actually the examiners are very friendly, it's just me . I was the same with the club instructors. It took a few visits to the field; getting my plane out; then putting it back in; before i flew with one.

[Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator]

Thanks everyone. In particular thanks to Max. He makes a point I sometimes think that we forget. I think we were all quite timid when we started - but time and experience have led to us forgeting how we felt as beginners. Max's last comment about beginners getting their model out and then being too shy or timid to ask an instructor is a worry. Maybe with some beginners we need to be a bit more "pushy" - in the nicest possible way of course!

BEB

[Lindsay Todd]

It's an interesting discussion, as some of you will be aware I belong to the same club as Beb and have been a member since the late seventies and have seen a variety of changes during its time. At one time I was training officer for a year, the idea being that I was the focus for instructing it did not work for anyone really, least of all myself as I rarely got to fly my own models and found that i regularly had a queue of people whilst other capable instructors had more time on there hands but did not like to change the status quo. We then went through a phase of internal club recognised training instructors assessed by the committee members as I recall based on volunteers, the idea to ensure the club recognised and directed novices too an approved list, this was pre bmfa scheme and worked to some extent however the scheme was changed again with the adoption of the bmfa club and approved instructors scheme and we have tried to promote this from within the club and has been in effect for many years now and seems to work well. One of the points that is rarely considered and I would like to raise to the novices is that dispite an instructor being a skilled or at least experienced pilot they are often shy at approaching people themselves, breaking the ice has always been the most difficult factor. I am now a member of several clubs and actually more active away from the club that Beb and I share but the traits are almost identical. People in my club might not believe that I am fundamentaly a shy person dispite being an instructor and examiner yet always willing to help, so just come and ask. Linds

[Concorde Speedbird]

It was easy for me- my Dad taught me! Yay!

CS (No answers dept)