What Really Is The Best Aircraft For A Beginner?

[Greg Watkiss]

Hello,

I have just come back from a mornings flying and as a beginner I have had my fair share of crashes and breakages. What I think may be some of my trouble is that at 64 years my reactions may not be as sharp as they used to be. When I first decided to take up the hobby took some retailer's advice and read online what manufacturers consider to be the best aircraft they sell for beginners I have come to the conclusion that most of what they say, although I am sure is well meant, is all hype in selling their wares.

I said earlier that I suffered some breakages while fly this morning. Fortunately there is nothing that can't be fixed but I was disappointed that out of the two aircraft I purchased (with adivce) to learn on I found them difficult to control. I won't mention the models I purchased as I do not want to look a fool!!!

Now I have had a taste of flying and crashing I want to go back for more and more and more so once and for all I would like to know what model I really should have purchased in the beginning rather than waste my hard earned money on what a retailer wants to sell me.

Enough is enough. I want to purchase somethng that really is for the beginner.

If you have any recommendations please could you post the details stating model name, manufacturer and perhaps an online retailer selling the model.

I look forward to your replies.

Best regards,

Greg

[Phil 9]

multiplex east star every time

[Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator]

Greg - there really is no definitive answer to this question as you've asked it! There are many models that are suitable for beginners - but they do depend on the person's individual circumstances.

First of all are you getting instruction on a buddy lead? Or are you trying to learn on your own? The models I would recommend would depend very much on the answer to those questions.

Also, you may not want to but, it really would help if you could tell us what you have been flying with so far. You see they may not be suitable and it may well have been "hype" from the seller and we'd all agree - which at least tells us that the problem is the type of model and not the way you're learning. On the other hand we might all agree that these are sensible models for a beginner - it which we really need to give you some advice on different ways of learning.

BEB

[Spikey]

Greg, you're three years younger than me, and I'm about six months into teaching myself from scratch. The greater part of that six months has been spent waiting for calm days, because I found out very early on that I need more practice before I fly in anything other than a very gently breeze.

FWIW, for me the key to this whole thing is slow, "floaty" models. I made myself a cheap 'n' cheerful Pipelagger to start with, crashed and rebuilt that 7 (I think) times, and have now progressed to a 40" Lazy Bee which IMHO is a cracking good aeroplane for a beginner, on the grounds that

(a) It's a very docile flier

(b) It's happy to fly really slowly, which gives you more time to think

(c) It flies itself off the ground

(d) It's a doddle to land

(e) It doesn't have ailerons

It seems to me that most of these modern RTF or ARTF "beginner's" models are in fact aimed at young people who want something which whizzes round the sky at great speed. That's definitely the impression I got from watching videos of them!

[scott finnie]

Parkzone Radian 3 channel! I love them, very easy to fly, forgiving and can fly in windy conditions. A nice big stable bird

[dbflyer]

A good trainer will follow the pattern that has proved itself for the last 30 or 40 years. It is a high wing trainer with a wingspan between 56" and 62". In days gone by we learnt using a 40 size 2 stroke but no buddy box. It was soul destroying until they invented buddy boxes and buddy leads then the learning curve gradually got smoother. The same size models are valid today but with ARTF you don't have to build them. People learn with electric motors and several batteries and a charger. Others use a modern 46 2 stroke and good quality fuel, again with a buddy box and plenty of hours training with one of those stalwarts of the model club, a club instructor. If you try to teach yourself it will be expensive and soul destroying for many months I suspect.

I am 67 and tried to teach myself to fly about 40 years ago and then a kindly member, after watching my dashes and crashes told me to get a buddy lead and I never looked back with him on the other "box". Now I am an instructor and have been for over 20 years and I get lot of enjoyment seeing student pilots progressing through to their A certs.

A proper 4 channel model, a buddy box and lead and a kindly mentor, that will do it.

[Simon Chaddock]

Greg

The questions BEB has asked are really rather fundamental to giving you useful advice.

Don't be embarrassed we all had to learn and we all crashed - many times!

[john melia 1]

i've got one of these , pretty big tho 70 odd inch span , but its doing me fine

[john melia 1]

i also spent a long time on the phoenix sim before i attempted to fly the sedona , and as of this post i havent crashed it yet

[Andrew767]

2nd dbflyer....an excellent explanation. Easystars etc. are ok if you have no choice but to teach yourself.

Andrew

[Bearair]

I don't remember trainers being powered by 40s or 4 channel 30- 40 years ago! I remember Kamco Kadetts, Tyro Majors, Super Sixty's, Veron Robots etc and a 19 to 30 powered these and they were 3 channel.

I'm with BEB and Simon before recommending anything we need to know what the op is having problems with.

[Rick Tee]

Taught myself to fly 40 years ago with a Kamco Kadet and OS25, but already had a fair bit of building experience from Kielcraft rubber powered kits, various control liners built from plans/kits and having studied some aerodynamics in the RAF had a fair idea of what to expect.

I would not recommend teaching yourself, you'll learn faster and suffer considerably less damage with an instructor and a buddy lead.

The main difference between the old style 3 channel trainers and current trainers is almost all modern trainers have ailerons and less dihedral making them much less stable in roll. The old trainers were basicaly radio interupted free flight models. My favorite upto date trainer is the Irvine Tutor 40 though there's very little between modern 40 size trainers. If you have no option but to teach yourself then one of those electric foam models with a pusher prop is probably the best way to go.

[tomo55]

I would go with vintage designs junior 60 / super 60 or simular. 25 powered 3 channel control.

As has been mentioned the dihedral in the older trainers makes them very stable, weigh less and are slower flyers which equals more reaction time and in my opinion a more enjoyable flight.

I have been flying vintage aircraft for 30 years and do not intend to change for a acrobatic screamer any time soon.

Good luck with what ever you decide.

Chris

[Redex]

If you want to go the electric route then how about the E-Pioneer. Mine took me from a novice to 'A' test and now beyond and still going strong, even my instructor liked it and he's an ic type. Very easy to fly giving lots of 'thinking time' very valuable when starting out. Handles reasonable windy conditions ok and spares are available.

[SkippyUK]

Me, my son and about countless Scouts learnt on a Ripmax Nova trainer with Irvine 46 IC engine.

You can still find them about but not new - mine's still in the shed and used to be flown regularly.

Flat bottomed thick wing and loads of dihedral so if you did let go of the sticks it would generally right itself and fly straight and level but it would not do any aerobatics beyond rolls and loops.

Tricycle undercart with steerable nose wheel for good ground control (that sprung nose wheel sure did get a hammering....).

Not sure what the modern electric equivalent is but IMHO a big high wing model with a lot of dihedral is a good place to start especially if the orientation and stick responses aren't developed yet.

It does mean that you outgrow it as soon as you get past your A test standard but it does fly in all but the worst weather as your skills improve

Skippy

[scott finnie]

I learnt to fly with a Kyosho Trainer 40, i had a futaba skysport 6a and a basic flight box, i still have it, bright pink it is and although the covering is brittle now she still fly's nicely, ready to retire her soon, been a great aircraft through my 17 years of flying, i got her second hand, must be around 20 years old and never been crashed, all original servos, engine and 35 receiver on channel 61, i'll miss it when it finally has to go .

If you can find one which is has never been used then go for it

[ozjimthree3]

Hallo Greg, your flying experiences are just like mine. The two things that finally got me flying were a flightsim program on my computer, this helped no end with orientation problems, and a model called Basic3D. At the time it was a free plan in RCM+E but now you can get a laser cut kit.for it. At least you'll be able to "fly" the simulator and have a go at building the model on the all to frequent days where flying isn't possible. However, joining a club and getting tuition from an instructor would get you flying with more confidence and less crashes. As a bonus you'll be with like minded people and you'll find that flying an R/C model really is more fun than trauma.

Brian

[ken anderson.]

heloo greg-i'm late in the day with my answer for you....def consider an 'arising star'.....this will give your confidence the boost it needs and ........ will do all you want of it........try also to buddy up with a good...fellow flyer who will get you through all of the basics.............until you can land and take off.....with out pound note sign's appearing if you get it wrong.............

ken anderson ne..1 ....... pound note sign's dept....

[Stephen Grigg]

Hi Greg as previously stated I found after a few mis purchases also thet the Multiple Easistar was the one that had me flying.Must be in aq gentle breeze to start with.Theyve recently updated it and I started on my own.I then progressed to a seagull Pioneer and there is a good thread on this model.Ive also found the Multiples Funcub can take you a long way but not overpowered..Yoy can buy the Easistar ready to fly nd its a good stable gentle model,time is of the essence when learning to fly.Once flying I found an old Super Scorpion really helped me along also.Keep at it your age isnt the problem I know,from experience

[Tim Mackey]

One aspect which has not been stressed in many replies is DURABILITY.

You need something that can take the odd knock and scrape, not to mention the occasionally "arrival" and to be honest, I think theres only one material that can give you that - foam. That normally means you go the EP route ( Electric powered ) although the prangster is IC if thats your thing. FORGET appearance for now, you need to learn to fly and more importantly do controlled reliable landings beofre anything else. Balsa and most other foams break easily.

EPP is the rubbery bouncy stuff, and there are several trainer style models that deploy this material. Heres a small selection of tough toys.

H/King trainer

Robotbirds

Prangster for IC

V trainer

Edited By Tim Mackey on 21/06/2013 09:30:04

[SkippyUK]

Good list Tim. I watched a guy learn on the dunes with a V Trainer and everytime it went in, he just picked it up and started again.
Offered to help him but he was having fun.....

Edited By SkippyUK on 22/06/2013 09:28:36

[dbflyer]

"I don't remember trainers being powered by 40s or 4 channel 30- 40 years ago! I remember Kamco Kadetts, Tyro Majors, Super Sixty's, Veron Robots etc and a 19 to 30 powered these and they were 3 channel".

30 or 40 years ago would be 1970 or so. The model I started on was the Big Wig, a plan built trainer from Radio Modeller or RCM&E, I don't remember. This was flown with a Merco 61 and Horizon Radio. It was too big for my car really so I was given the plan from a Kamco Kadet kit. (I still have the plan). This I built from scratch (which means without a kit) and I powered it with an OS 40 FP and Horizon radio. All my models from that era were flown using an OS 40FP or Enya 40. All my trainers had ailerons because I built them into the wing even if the plan showed a non aileron wing. I couldn't afford kits. I never had a 3 channel trainer and I discourage any student pilot that flies with me to have a non aileron wing....and steerable nosewheels.

All those models listed at the top were being flown with OS 40 FPs etc as well as 19 to 30s in the 70s With 4 channel it was the rule to have 40 size engines, where I flew anyway. I still have a Kamco Kadet but it has been converted, reluctantly, to electric power and gets occasional use. It is 4 channel and non steerable noseleg.

(Just to clarify but it was a long time ago)

[Greg Watkiss]

Hello,

Thank you everyone who responded to my quest to find a slow flying trainer.

I have had lots of good sound advice about many aircraft that might be good for me and I am actively looking online at those mentioned aircraft. I would like to ask the same question again as my original posting but this time ask you for recommendations on Foam Aircraft that would be slow flying, take a few knocks and suitable for the beginner.

I look forward to all your helpful replies as always.

By the way, no flying today. It's blowing a gale out there!

Regards, Greg

[SkippyUK]

An electric foamie that flies slow and can take knocks - here's the previously mentioned V Trainer

Not the prettiest plane but being EPP, it can be mended with UHU Por and CA glue.

If you have some previous experience then go for the 4 channel or for gentle flying, the 3 channel.

This is the V Trainer website

A video of it

And a previous review on here

I have not owned one but seen a few in action and have several other Flying Wings planes and they all perform well if the EPP finish is a bit basic.

Skippy

Edited By SkippyUK on 22/06/2013 17:56:27

[Bearair]

Posted by dbflyer on 22/06/2013 13:24:43:

"I don't remember trainers being powered by 40s or 4 channel 30- 40 years ago! I remember Kamco Kadetts, Tyro Majors, Super Sixty's, Veron Robots etc and a 19 to 30 powered these and they were 3 channel".

 

30 or 40 years ago would be 1970 or so. The model I started on was the Big Wig, a plan built trainer from Radio Modeller or RCM&E, I don't remember. This was flown with a Merco 61 and Horizon Radio. It was too big for my car really so I was given the plan from a Kamco Kadet kit. (I still have the plan). This I built from scratch (which means without a kit) and I powered it with an OS 40 FP and Horizon radio. All my models from that era were flown using an OS 40FP or Enya 40. All my trainers had ailerons because I built them into the wing even if the plan showed a non aileron wing. I couldn't afford kits. I never had a 3 channel trainer and I discourage any student pilot that flies with me to have a non aileron wing....and steerable nosewheels.

All those models listed at the top were being flown with OS 40 FPs etc as well as 19 to 30s in the 70s With 4 channel it was the rule to have 40 size engines, where I flew anyway. I still have a Kamco Kadet but it has been converted, reluctantly, to electric power and gets occasional use. It is 4 channel and non steerable noseleg.

(Just to clarify but it was a long time ago)

 

..............

 

I started with a single channel, then progressed to 2 channel in a glider with a pod, after a few 1/2a designs Sky Skooter, Q-tee which were built from plans (plan built) I had a Tyro and finally my first 3 channel a Tyro Major powered by a Veco 19. I followed that with Kamco Kaddet. Then my first "full house" a DB Skyrider powered by a Super Tigre 29. Then a Kamco Kavaleir and a Kamco Kossack (Tony Els flew at our site) all powered by the ST29. During this time I was doing my first scratch build (designing and building the model from scratch) designs powered by the Veco 19, These first scratch builds were loosley based on other peoples design's that I couldn't afford a plan for, Outlaw and Purple Haze being two of them. I didn't own a 40 until I started pylon racing with the Maneater and Super Maneater . I didn't own a 60 until I made a plan built Brian Tailor F4U Corsair fitted with the very first twist and turn retracts and then a scratch built Hawker Typhoon.

As I remember it the first 40 size trainers started to appear frequently in the early to mid eighty's around the same time OS first made the FP!. To me they became widely used after the advent of the Buddy lead. Indeed I always thought it was the advent of the buddy lead that started the use of a 4 Channel trainer in preference to the 3 channel. I couldn't imagine what a 40 powered Tyro Major, Super 60 or Robot would be like and certainly never saw one, they must of been grossly over weight and over powered and I would of thought pigs to fly. They were nota four channeI , 40 size trainer anymore than a Arising Star or Irvine Tutor would be 60 size trainers if you fitted a 60 in it. I can only remember one Kaddet with a 40 in it and that was a candidate I took for the A test, it was very heavy with a forty and flew nothing like the original 3 channel Kaddets.

I have been teaching people to fly since i was 11 years of age and have taught with 2,3 and 4 channel models and whilst I cannot see any reason why a beginner would wish to fly a 2 channel trainer anymore (glider excepted) I believe there is still a place for the older 3 channel designs. I think that both the older 3 channel models and newer ones can be a good place to start even on a buddy lead. I spent years trying to talk SWMBO into learning to fly. She simply could not get on with a 4 channel 40 size trainer (the clubs) but after watching me leave a Junior 60 gently circling on it's own when I went to pour a cup of tea she is happy to fly that sort of model. I am not suggesting that the 40 size trainer shouldn't be considered a great way to learn to fly, and is probably the most versatile type, but I would never presume to discourage someone wishing to fly a 3 channel. Particularly until I had had the opportunity to assess what their level of talent is!

My Kamco Kaddet still exists and is still used occasionally for teaching although now it has a huge HB 25 in it!. I would encourage anyone who gets the chance to have a go with a 3 channel old fashion model especially some of the vintage designs. Perversely I still get a kick out of trimming a model so it can fly "hands off" for as long as possible.

Hope I've clarified my recollection and I am glad to say it all seams like it happened " just yesterday"

Roger

Edited By Pete B - Moderator on 22/06/2013 21:22:48