The Dawn Flyer's Club House

[Vecchio Austriaco]

Not sure if the wood connections will be as strong as they should be - the stain will impregnate the surface - and the glue will not go into the wood as it does if it is not treated. I built before any treatment, is much easier as you can sand away any irregularities - what you cannot after painting. I used one layer of sanding filler, sanded lightly and used a rapid drying paint after that. Surface is good, a satin finish, slightly shiny.

VA

[David Tweddle]

Thanks VA my thinking was the stain would not penetrate as well as I would like it to after making a joint (did I say that).

I was after comments so thanks for the input, I was going to try a test rig one stained and one not, and do a destruction test in single and double sheer also splice joints weighted to breaking points.

My thoughts were that I would get a deep stain/colour penetration and if the glue ran it could be cut back and sanded without showing...

I think I should just get on with it Ta, after all there is always paint...

Another point I was thinking of using poly (Gorilla) glue on the ladder so I could steam after or as necessary, thoughts please any one.

David

Ps talking of joints, me thinks time for a Jameson's as all my joint's ache...

[Colin Hooper]

Finally my 25% larger Dawn Flyer is complete. It is unflown which is unsurprising with the current weather. I am powering from a 4 cell 3300 battery which solves the slightly tail heavy balance issue.

The fuselage is tissue and easikote finished with water based Nut Brown acrylic (brushed on). The only issues were when forming the undercarriage. Christmas bought a Mighty Bender which made bending the 5/32nd piano wire easier but I fear my soldering has let me down. It is strong but ugly! I might have to have a second attempt.

[Vecchio Austriaco]

@ David: No Jamesons for me - I am on a " Dryathlon" during the month of January...
So it will be lemon and lime lemonade

@ Colin: looks very nice, especially the colour you are using.

VA

[Darran]

Posted by Vecchio Austriaco on 04/01/2014 17:49:41:

Darran, so you will have plenty of wood - there were 2 sheets of balsa spare when I finished! and on top of that you have the material from the broken kit - time to think about the next project

VA

I think not this will be my first build, so in at the deep end already. I have so many things to work out, what tools I will need, what I am to use to build on, what glues to use. That's before I even start on the reading of the plans and the actual build.

[kc]

Darran, make sure you save any speccially shaped parts that are not damaged to use for crash repairs! Everybody crashes at some time.
As for tools start with a Swann Morton scalpel ( Retractaway is best )with 10A blade. A Stanley knife with brand new blade for cutting thicker balsa, maybe thin or lite ply. A razor saw is handy but a midget hacksaw is a reasonable alternative. Then you need a sanding block - make your own from glasspaper or much better get a Permagrit block, just the wedge shped one is all you really need. Building board can be plasterboard - must be dead flat and just a bit bigger than the largets part fus or wing. Get some T pins or map pins which are better than sewing pins. A few of the SLEC clamps ( rubber band type) in the large size would be useful. Thats about all you really need plus some glue, perhaps Aliphatic and some thin cyano.
Compare the plan to each item talked about on the various blogs to see what people mean especially the problem areas that are noted.

Edited By kc on 06/01/2014 19:03:05

[kc]

Whilst a dark brown varnish colour might look nice it might be more scalelike to make the wood a golden yellowy varnish to represent varnished & aged spruce. All the older planes at Old Warden seem a golden yellowy colour in the wood parts if I remember correctly. Much easier to do a golden colour than a dark stain too.

[Darran]

Posted by kc on 06/01/2014 18:59:37:
Darran, make sure you save any speccially shaped parts that are not damaged to use for crash repairs! Everybody crashes at some time.
As for tools start with a Swann Morton scalpel ( Retractaway is best )with 10A blade. A Stanley knife with brand new blade for cutting thicker balsa, maybe thin or lite ply. A razor saw is handy but a midget hacksaw is a reasonable alternative. Then you need a sanding block - make your own from glasspaper or much better get a Permagrit block, just the wedge shped one is all you really need. Building board can be plasterboard - must be dead flat and just a bit bigger than the largets part fus or wing. Get some T pins or map pins which are better than sewing pins. A few of the SLEC clamps ( rubber band type) in the large size would be useful. Thats about all you really need plus some glue, perhaps Aliphatic and some thin cyano.
Compare the plan to each item talked about on the various blogs to see what people mean especially the problem areas that are noted.

Thank you very much, this is a good list for me to start with, cyano is what I would call 'super glue' is that right, aliphatic is a wood glue I guess is it like the white stuff I've used in the past to glue wood joints etc. are there any favoured ones amongst the building community to look out for.

 

Edited By Darran on 06/01/2014 19:56:39

[John Manning]

Hi Darran, JohnM here, coming into a first build is an exciting and challenging time. Fear not for there are lots of model builders to help you. Firstly welcome to the world of model building. The problem that I had when restarting building was "What do I use to build on" I had not thought of plasterboard but instead SLEC came to the rescue with purpose made building boards. They are like a butchers block in that they are made of end grain timber, in this case hard balsa. They are easy to use and slec also sell a plastic film that covers the plan so that you model does not stick to it. Aliphatic glue is like wood glue but it dries hard so you can sand it. A word of warning, if you have only used craft knives in the past you will find scalpels very sharp, Take care, we want the red on our models to be paint not blood. Good luck.

John M

[John Manning]

Here's one for every body, If I build the Dawn flyer, who will fly it at Greenacres for me?

Any takers

John M

[Vecchio Austriaco]

John,

why not flying it yourself?

VA

[kc]

Darran. Super glue is a general term for cyano. Most aeromodellers dont buy super glue from a supermamrket but prefer to choose from the range available from model shops. We often use very thin penetrating cyano ( 'hot')which sets instantly and can be 'wicked' into joints. Or we can use several thicker types for other types of joint. Best of all is the type of cyano which does not give off fumes but its dearer. For this purpose some people dont use cyano but use De Luxe Super Phatic which is thin but does not stick fingers together as its atype of PVA.

For Aliphatic De Luxe Materials Aliphatic is one brand often used. Actually I use Evostick |Wood Glue Resin W but its not aliphatic. Cheap supermarket brand glues are often not strong enough for aeromodelling so use a proper brand. Distastrous to make a model with inferior glue! Make a test joint on scrap wood and test it to destruction - if the wood doesnt fall to pieces the glue is no good. Normamlly if the glue has fully hardened for 24 hours the wood -balsa or hardwood- comes apart before the glue fails. .

Check out the website for DeLuxe Materials and also 5 Star Adhesives. Both these suppliers normally exhibit at the London Model Engineering ehibiton at Alexandra Palace due to be later this month. If you can get there I am sure both these people will demonstrate exactly how to use their glues and sell you some. Both have expert staff who know what you want.

Of course if you go to Ally Pally the BMFA stand will have people building models ( usually not RC ) who can demonstrate techniques or answer questions.

Edited By kc on 07/01/2014 14:44:31

[David Tweddle]

5 Star Will is on this Forum from time to time. Just ring the shop they will give you loads of unbiased advice.

David

[David Tweddle]

Posted by John Manning on 06/01/2014 20:15:35:

Take care, we want the red on our models to be paint not blood. Good luck.

John M

No sense of adventure...

David

[Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator]

Hi Darren,

if you take a look at my Dawn Flyer build blog you'll see that I have recorded - and often photographed! - all of the tools I have used on the Dawn Flyer and also explained what adhedsives I've used for what joints - and why. This is aimed at helping folks in exactly your position to have an idea not only how to build the model but what to use to do it!

BEB

[kc]

Building boards. No doubt the SLEC balsa boards are very good but they are very expensive. Plasterboard is cheap - maybe free as offcuts in a builders skip, but ask first- and expendable. I use screws into the plasterboard to hold down thick spars which is something you wouldn't want to do with an expensive last for a lifetime balsa board!
Pins go into plasterboard much better than expected. Having several smaller boards enables work to continue on tailplanes etc whilst the wing etc dries. I photocopy or trace the wing or tailplane parts to save damaging the original plan and this also helps using seperate smaller boards. Wing boards must be dead flat and not warped ( twisted) again a reason for avoiding expensive balsa boards. Poor storage can easily warp any board just enough to ruin a wing. You could use plywood as a building board but its very difficult to get pins into it. Some people use cork tiles on top of ply or MDF so the pins penetrate. Dont use glass headed pins which shatter and penetrate your thumb, T pins or large plastic headed map pins are better. Once you have had a glass headed pin shatter and pierce your thumb you will understand why even normal dressmaker pins are better! For any pins you may need a pair of pliers to twist & remove them once the glue dries.

Edited By kc on 07/01/2014 15:14:37

[Vecchio Austriaco]

Was playing a bit with crafty computer paper clear decal paper - and I have to say the stuff is brilliant. oversprayed the print twice with humbrol clear acrylic, and after a short hairdryer blow on the model. I am happy with the results!
The rough weather at Greenacres will show if it is any good...

have a look:

ok, you can see the carrier film, but only if you put your nose on it.

VA

[Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator]

Very nice VA - but shouldn't it be G-DFVA?

BEB

[Vecchio Austriaco]

AA as the numbering started with AAAA ... and it should be a rather historic model

And the VA is on the outside of the cockpit anyway

VA

[John Manning]

VA, An excellent model, if mine is half as good I shall be pleased. I shall not be able to fly at Greenacres as I have yet to gain my "A" cert or the confidence to fly my own handiwork. Hence my request for some body to take the sticks at our illustriuos get together.

KC, thanks for the extra tips. I'll do a bit more to the J21 and then may be able to move towards the Dawn Flyer.

John M

[kc]

John, clubs are never short of people who volunteer to fly other peoples models.....and they usually crash them! You need to ask around to find who is the most competant pilot. You also need to ascertain what Mode they fly on. According to the BMFA models need to be test flown before flying at public displays. I am not sure if Greenacres is considered a public display but it may be much the same - lots of people around. So a test flight in quiet conditions is really required. Over the years I have seen dozens or probably hundred newcomers bring their model along for a first flight. Almost always they have to go away and fix some minor problems before it's fit to fly. There is always something thats not quite up to standard that a good instructor will find BEFORE the flight. The worst pilots find the fault amongst the crashed remains as an excuse!
So dont trust your precious model to just anyone.

[Vecchio Austriaco]

John,

there is still a lot of time to get your A - it is not difficult, even I made it

find yourself a model which is easy to control and try to get confidence. It is practise, practise and practise what is necessary.

I absolutely prefer to maiden my own models, of course I flew models of others, but only if I saw them flying first - so I can see that they can fly and do not show any nasty behaviour. I also let others fly my models - but I insist of doing the maiden flight of my models myself. If I cannot do that - then I shouldn't fly it.

VA

[Darran]

Posted by Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 07/01/2014 14:56:03:

Hi Darren,

if you take a look at my Dawn Flyer build blog you'll see that I have recorded - and often photographed! - all of the tools I have used on the Dawn Flyer and also explained what adhedsives I've used for what joints - and why. This is aimed at helping folks in exactly your position to have an idea not only how to build the model but what to use to do it!

BEB

BEB this is a very informative blog and just what I was looking for to help me along with my build. Whilst I am waiting on the arrival of my CNC pack I have started locating the tools I will need. Also I like the fact that the blog shows in detail the steps taken for someone like me who's just starting it is ideal to see and not just read about the steps taken. This along with the other blogs etc. I am following should mean that with patience,care and a little luck I will be able to produce a fairly decent first build attempt.

[Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator]

That's the idea Darren.

John, VA is right - lots of time to get your A cert yet - nil desperandum and all that mate.

Just to be clear on one point - Greenacres does require that the model must have flown before - there must be no maidens at the meeting. Basic safety regs - plus the event is too busy to have folks faffing around with a model holding everything up. Finally, to be honest, its just not a suitable atmosphere for a maiden. I totally agree with VA that I wouldn't fly any model I wouldn't be prepared to maiden myself. But I always try to choose a quite day, not too many folks around, good weather, That way I can concentrate on the new model and take my time - only committing to a take off run when I'm totally happy that I've done everything I possibly can to ensure the maiden will be as uneventful as possible!

VA - I really like your decals - can I ask where you got the paper from, and can the printer used be a laser or does it have to be an inkjet?

BEB

Edited By Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 08/01/2014 23:36:51

[Vecchio Austriaco]

Hi BEB, the material is from Crafty Computer paper, it is called clear  waterslide inkjet decal paper, it comes in single, 10 or 50 sheets A4 and there is also A3 I think. I am sure there are also others on the market. What I like is that it worked at first trial.

I used this company also earlier, used their textile transfer paper to transfer CAD prints to balsa sheets. Works very well also. See here.

Printer: I suppose every photo inkjet printer will work. I use an Epson Stylus Photo R 265, the ink is not cheap, but the photo prints are brilliant.

After the ink has dried on the decal paper spray it twice with clear acrylic paint, I used Humbrol. when the paint is dry, you can accelerate that with a hair dryer, you treat it like every normal decal. Cut it out, put it into warm water with a drop of washing up liquid in it, put some water on the surface where the decal goes, and after 30 seconds - or a bit more - you can carefully slide it from the carrier to the surface where it should go to. If you wish extra weather protection you can seal it by spraying over with clear acrylic paint, this impregnates the edges.

So to everybody who tries it - have fun!

VA

Edited By Vecchio Austriaco on 09/01/2014 16:31:16