Barnstormer Boys

[kevin b]

Well I'm now up and running, or is that gluing ? Looks like the standards are going to be very high. Ah well, nothing ventured, as they say. Mine will be a "small" offering in comparison, but I will give it my best try.

It's a 925mm wingspan scaled down 52ins "Shedstormer". I would have built the Baby, but didn't have the plan at the time and anyway it's a challenge !

Build log is now online and open for criticsm, obesrvation and sympathy. I'm not promising a quick build or a concourse finish, but hope to be at Greenacres with a flyable model for a few laughs.

kevinb.

[Dave Miller]

I shall follow your progress with interest Kevin.

[David Davis]

I hope to start the Baby Barnstormer this week, car repairs and house redecoration permitting.

The plan shows a considerable amount of both side and down thrust on the engine. The original model was powered by a Cox Babe Bee 049 but I shall be using a Mills 75 diesel. Given that the Mills is considerably less powerful than the Cox, should I reduce or eliminate both the down thrust and the side thrust or keep things as they are on the plan?

Come on you aeronautical engineers, help me out here!

[kevin b]

Just in case anyone is thinking of cheating, this one has been "clocked".

**LINK**

kevinb.

[Nigel Day]

My wood's arrived and the scroll saw should follow today so I'll be off soon with the 63"er.

From a quick look at the plans I might be looking for help to identify one or two pieces. I'll shout if I still have a problem after a proper shifty.

[Nigel Day]

Noddy question here.

Am I right in thinking that the Barnstormer design was created by 'Boddo' and wasn't directly from a real plane?

If so, then I guess any styling and colours etc are acceptable (within the bounds of at least reasonable taste obviously)?

[Dave Miller]

You are correct, it's not scale, but there were quite a few 'tween wars aircraft that it could have beet modeled on; but you can let your imagination run riot as far as colour schemes go.

[Mike Hardy]

Hi Nigel,

what make of scroll saw have you bought?

Mike.

[Nigel Day]

Hi Mike.

It's the Axminster Hobby model. The cost was just under £80. You can see it here: LINK

I got it following the discussion about scroll saws in this forum, one of which is HERE

Looks good and seems excellent value to me. You can blame KC if you don't like it though.

[kc]

Mike, Axminster are scheduled to exhibit at the Alexandra Palace show on Friday, Saturday & Sunday this weekend. I expect they will exhibit lathes but they may just have the Scroll Saw as well if you want ot examine one.
Other firms may have their similar machines there.

[Mike Hardy]

Thanks Nigel and kc,

The Axminster looks good, have looked at the Clarke. I need something that is light as it needs to be moved when not in use.

I have realised that the Barnstormer needs a scroll saw to produce all those formers from ply. Up to now my approach would be to use a fret saw, but for this application it would take too long. So I guess I am in the market.

Not started yet, waiting for you 'master builders' to sort out the bugs first - been watching Phil's blog and waiting for his 'split wing mod.

Have not finished the Tucano - having props with the cockpit cover bond, ok for a couple of weeks then fails.

Mike.

[Nigel Day]

Although the Axminster is 20Kg Mike, I've no difficulty lifting about my work area and even to the floor - and I'm no weightlifter either. Feels solid too.

You wouldn't want to rob kc of another lot of commission would you?

Edited By Nigel Day on 15/01/2014 16:43:16

[Phil Winks]

Nigel both those links seem to be flawed as they open this page again

Mike when thinking about any machine that needs to be moved about weight is obviously a concern, but if you go to light the chances are you increase the possibility of the bed vibrating during use and making it harder to use, 20kg seems a reasonable weight for a decent scroll saw, definitely no lighter than 10 unless its a tiny one like the proxxon one, and even that I believe is possibly in the 10kg area

Regarding the comment "All of those formers being made from ply" in actual fact if your going electric its F2,3 and 4 the rest are best from balsa

[kc]

I have no connection with Axminster except as a customer! I think Nigel knows that and was joking but I just want to clarify.
Some similar scroll saws have aluminium or pressed steel tables so they weigh less.

However I dont think you absolutely need a scrollsaw for a Barnstormer's formers. Most of the formers have straight sides I think and the most efficient way is to cut the straight parts with a fine toothed (hand) saw maybe a Gents saw,fine toothed tenon saw or preferably a Jap type pull saw ( about 6 pounds at Toolstation ) Then all you need is a little hand or power fretsawing on the curved parts.
It's one of those things -straight cuts are easier done by hand with a fine saw but if you have a scrollsaw set up ready to go then you might use it but it will not cut straight lines as accurately as a Jap saw etc.
So even though I have my scrollsaw set ready to go I always cut the straight ply parts by hand and then the fancy bits with the scrollsaw or a coping saw or jewellers saw ( piercing saw - sort of tiny fretsaw )
All the cuts are finished by sanding with a Permagrit block.
So use whatever tool is easiest but remember " he who dies with the most tools wins! "

[Nigel Day]

Hmm, thanks Phil, I need to read the link options more closely. I'll try again.

The Axminster is HERE

The forum thread is HERE

Oh, and I WAS joking kc.

Edited By Nigel Day on 15/01/2014 17:40:18

Edited By Nigel Day on 15/01/2014 17:42:19

[Phil Winks]

That seems to work fine Nigel I'd found it already and yes in my professional opinion that is a good if not great hobby scroll saw some very useful features though I can't immediately see if it is supplied with a fence, I tend to think not, which would be a most useful feature, though its likely a couple of small clamps and a length of aluminium angle would prob suffice at a push, though lining it up parallel with the blade might be fun.

One usefull feature that most seem to miss when posting links on here is the "target" tab in there the option to open in a new window (_blank) is a nice touch meaning when you click on a link it doesn't navigate your original page away from where it is, just thought I'd share that snippet.

A Bit like this

[Phil Winks]

Posted by Mike Hardy on 15/01/2014 16:30:20:

Not started yet, waiting for you 'master builders' to sort out the bugs first - been watching Phil's blog and waiting for his 'split wing mod.

Have not finished the Tucano - having props with the cockpit cover bond, ok for a couple of weeks then fails.

Mike.

Hi Mike the mod you mention here will be a little way of yet still need get the wing joiner tube and phenolic sheath also musing over the method to stop the wings drifting of in flight, possibly I'll use 2 or 4 "O" rings over protruding bolt heads though D&B's wing joiner system also looks a possibility it may be a neater option

Just out of interest What glue are you using for your tucano canopy, and do you have to pull it in much ?

[Mike Hardy]

Does it matter if the fence is not quite parallel with the blade - you just get a slightly wider cut.

Mike

[Phil Winks]

Posted by Mike Hardy on 15/01/2014 17:59:49:

Does it matter if the fence is not quite parallel with the blade - you just get a slightly wider cut.

Mike

By wider cut I assume your refering to the kerf or width of the line of material removed

Its prob not as critical with a scroll saw as a band saw as the blade is thinner (front to back) but it does tend to cause the blade to wander of if the fence is not parallel to the line of cut as it puts a sideways pressure on the blade causing it to bow away from, or towards the fence, depending on the line of the fence

[Mike Hardy]

Hi Phil,

Tucano canopy: Had three attempts!! the first using Deluxe materials 'Glue and glaze' Totally useless. The next glue 'RC modellers craft glue' Better but bond only lasted about a month ( canopy assy stored in a unheated room)

The canopy need to be pulled in about 1/8" I do roughen the inside of the canopy material (pt something).

The next thing I will try is a silicone bond. unless the experts on here know of something better.

 

Mike.

Edited By Mike Hardy on 15/01/2014 18:10:59

[Mike Hardy]

Phil - I've learnt something today - Kerf the width of the cut.

Mike.

[Phil Winks]

there you go Mike every day a school day eh ?

[Phil Winks]

I wouldn't use silicone mate that will undoubtedly open a world of pain for you.

There are a few others but this is the one I prefer here

Allow it to cure in a warm room

Edited By Phil Winks on 15/01/2014 18:40:25

[Dave Miller]

Posted by Phil Winks on 15/01/2014 17:58:11:

Posted by Mike Hardy on 15/01/2014 16:30:20:

Not started yet, waiting for you 'master builders' to sort out the bugs first - been watching Phil's blog and waiting for his 'split wing mod.

Have not finished the Tucano - having props with the cockpit cover bond, ok for a couple of weeks then fails.

Mike.

Hi Mike the mod you mention here will be a little way of yet still need get the wing joiner tube and phenolic sheath also musing over the method to stop the wings drifting of in flight, possibly I'll use 2 or 4 "O" rings over protruding bolt heads though D&B's wing joiner system also looks a possibility it may be a neater option

Consider the use of a pair of magnets for keeping the wings from sliding down the tube. Once airborn aerodynamic loading should provide enough friction to keep them in place.

[kc]

A fence does not work properly on a scrollsaw, so no point in having one.
A possible exception to this is very soft material like soft balsa. But straight cuts in balsa are better done with a scalpel or a Stanleyknife for thicker balsa. I think the reciprocating movement lifts the material away from the fence, but anyway its all a hand and eye coordination thing to get them to cut straight.

But a scrollsaw is for cutting curves, straight cuts are better done with other saws. Buy a japanese type pullsaw for any straight cuts in any aeromodelling woods -marvellous tools and ordinary quality are not expensive.