Barnstormer Boys

[kc]

My info was that a copy of the Jan 1971 RCME with the Barnstormer Baby article and reduced size plan is for sale in England at 2 pounds from Modelling Magazine Exchange.
Might be handy for somebody.

Is anybody going to comment on whether ailerons are worhtwhile on a 52 or 63?

[David Davis]

I've never built a Barnstormer so cannot comment from experience, however, having built and flown a three-channel Super Sixty, I think i would like to try one with an aileron wing. Not that it's at all bad on three channels.

[Dave Bran]

Unconnected with any event, etc, nearly a year ago now I was given a 72" Barnstormer wing and fuselage.

It had been gifted ages ago incomplete by the widow of a former member and passed on through various people who'd done nothing with it. It had been made traditionally for RET and the wing was complete but for the tip shaping (giving me an interesting time getting the wiring to the aileron servos!)

Am adding small chord ailerons to outer four bays but not the tips, only to assist smoother turns on rudder, possibly switchable mix linked, though I usually do the mixing by me on the sticks! Dihedral will remain as built. It has so much area and chord that from the point of view of landings I feel flaps are likely a waste of effort, but most of my planes have spoileron/flaperon set up on a side slider (even if on some models they are not often if ever used!). With flying at a small site close to tall trees, the ability with spoilerons to kill the lift and drop flare the plane in quickly is a big plus.

I obtained copy and scaled up the mag review "plan" to make fin, rudder, tailplane and elevator. These will be studding in tube and nut attached for easier storage.

I have a OS70FS spare so am probably going with that, mounted upright for ease in use.

Scheme will be "old school" style patterning but in eye watering yellow and voilet Solarspan.

Well, SOMETHING has to brighten up this grotty weather!!

[kc]

One of the Barnstormer variations is Mark One which is an updated 63 with swept wings and full canopy plus higher turtledeck. Thrustline may be a little lower too.
Not too keen on the revised looks but the wing struts look neat and the piano wire u/c and piano wire cabane seems a good idea. Ailerons are shown and they are barn door type and extend for 4 rib bays one rib bay and tip away from tip. Dihedral is one and a sixteenth under each tip.
Plan was in RCME Nov 92 and is No RC 1698.
Boddo said the flying if anything was improved over the original and swept back helped CG without lead. He said wing struts were not 100 percent needed but desirable for aerobatics
As I said not to my taste but someone may be interested and the aileron details are interesting. I reckon wing struts added to a normal Barnstormer would be worthwhile and the piano wire torque rod u/c a good idea for rough flying fields.

[WolstonFlyer]

Posted by kc on 01/11/2013 11:11:44:
My info was that a copy of the Jan 1971 RCME with the Barnstormer Baby article and reduced size plan is for sale in England at 2 pounds from Modelling Magazine Exchange.
Might be handy for somebody.

I tried ordering the Jan 1971 magazine from Modelling Magazine Exchange, it didn't seem to work and I have not had a reply from them via email for more than a week. I can only assume it is a "defunct" website?

[Tony Bennett]

funny that.

i am fitting wing struts and piano wire u/c to mine.

flaps and ailerons too.

[Phil Winks]

wing struts look a great idea though I thought the banded on U/C would be fine for most rough fields

Phil

[kevin b]

Posted by WolstonFlyer on 02/11/2013 19:56:34:

Posted by kc on 01/11/2013 11:11:44:
My info was that a copy of the Jan 1971 RCME with the Barnstormer Baby article and reduced size plan is for sale in England at 2 pounds from Modelling Magazine Exchange.
Might be handy for somebody.

I tried ordering the Jan 1971 magazine from Modelling Magazine Exchange, it didn't seem to work and I have not had a reply from them via email for more than a week. I can only assume it is a "defunct" website?

PM me. I have a copy going "cheap", or if it is the plan I can send you a digital copy. I also have the 52ins original plan on file as well.

kevinb.

[WolstonFlyer]

PM Sent

[IanN]

Posted by WolstonFlyer on 02/11/2013 19:56:34:

.

I tried ordering the Jan 1971 magazine from Modelling Magazine Exchange, it didn't seem to work and I have not had a reply from them via email for more than a week. I can only assume it is a "defunct" website?

I had a similar experience a few days back. Seems they are updating to a new website. However, there is now a link to the old (still functioning) site, which works fine - bought the mag with the second half (fus etc) of the Mini Jazz plan from there yesterday

Edited By IanN on 02/11/2013 21:27:17

[IanN]

Posted by kc on 01/11/2013 11:11:44:


Is anybody going to comment on whether ailerons are worhtwhile on a 52 or 63?

Haven't had a Barnstormer but have a long serving Tranquiliser (Peter Holland designed parasol wing 60" span - i.e. v similar layout to Barnstormer

**LINK**

and ailerons are very definitely beneficial on that one

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[Martian]

Ian I don't have experience to say whether or not ailerons are worthwhile but I will be building the 52 Barnstormer I pretty sure they are not needed but what the heck I like complicated so I'm doing flaps and ailerons because well just because

[Tony Bennett]

that's what i like to hear, complication for the sake of it.

[Phil Winks]

That sounds like me Tony

Phil

[kc]

To fit ailerons or not is fairly fundamental to the wing construction , so I feel we should discuss this until we find someone who has actually fitted ailerons.
It would be nice to know the size of ailerons used and how much dihedral they used with ailerons.

[Phil Winks]

Posted by kc on 03/11/2013 12:37:14:
To fit ailerons or not is fairly fundamental to the wing construction , so I feel we should discuss this until we find someone who has actually fitted ailerons.
It would be nice to know the size of ailerons used and how much dihedral they used with ailerons.

Eddie has posted recommendations regarding the resetting of the dihedral when fitting ailerons but for the life of me I can't find them at the min basically reduce dihedral to 1" under each wing tip and make the ailerons to include the outer 4 rib bays and from the rear spar to the TE my understanding is they are very effective producing nice axial rolls, the jury is out still on the effectiveness of flaps but my feeling is they can't hurt its performance and could most likely improve its STOL capabilities.

phil

[Martian]

Tony has built his wings with flaps and Ailerons and Tony is a prolific builder .I'm happy to discuss the pro's and con's I appreciate that the wing will need beefing up in areas certainly as far as the plans I have are concerned and the dihedral will need reducing otherwise the plane will just wallow on aileron application at least that's my understanding. I'm going to base my dihedral angle on a similar sized wing with ailerons I want it to be reasonably stable and not twitchy so am going for about 2% your thoughts would be welcome.I want the ailerons to extend to include the wing tip so that will be 3 bays plus the tip and flaps to3 bays

Martin

[Phil Winks]

I may be getting this wrong Martian, but surely ailerons into the wing tip can at slower speeds induce tip stall esp if you attempt (accidently) to correct roll with them when it should be a rudder input say on landing approach due to the fact that the low wing will get effectively a bit of wash in added by the downgoing aileron where as a bit of wing outside the aileron can help prevent this by retaining its lift.

Phil

[Tony Bennett]

well i have run the ailerons right into the tips as it shows on the plan ( an optional choice).

i beefed up the false trailing edge by using full height 6mm balsa, the flaps run from the ailerons back to one bay out from the fuselage.

dihedral will be reduced to nothing, so a flat wing (like some cubs have)

[Martian]

Ah I see Phil thanks for pointing that out. I do like the look of ailerons extending to include the tip I will have to do some more research weigh up the pro's and con's. I understand with this style of model during slow speed approaches that the safest option is rudder correction for wing drop maybe it calls for practise at a safe height

[Phil Winks]

Thats just my understanding of a near mishap I had with an Arising star some time back though to be fair the Epioneer (basically an electric version) has its ailerons mostly out to the wing tip very little outside and she is stable enough though I'm better at airspeed management these days too,

Tony I'm sure that somewhere I've seen the drawings for the 63 version that shows the wing tips intact struggling to find out where I saw them though nothing on my plans re ailerons at all

Phil

[Tony Bennett]

i have a vague outline on the 2" plans, though i might have made an error in interpretation as to how far out they go.

which would not be a first for me.

i suppose any problems will show up on the maiden.

[Phil Winks]

I've definitely seen a recommendation either in text or drawings for the ailerons on the 63 just wish I could find it now lol near certain it was something Eddie said or referred to.

Phil

[WolstonFlyer]

Hi Phil, the only recent forum comments from Eddie are on the General Chat thread where we were talking about a change to the the dihedral and adding ailerons on the Tinker 45"