Devcon1 Posted October 26, 2013 Share Posted October 26, 2013 I seemed to remember one of the control line boys flew one at the Nats this year. All very exciting it was too, I could also hear it pretty much anywhere on Barkston Heath but "not in my backyard please" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete taylor Posted October 26, 2013 Author Share Posted October 26, 2013 Posted by Pete B - Moderator on 26/10/2013 09:33:22: I really don't see why folk are getting so agitated about this - there is clearly an implied criticism of HK in many of these posts. Hobbyking is a global company and the UK market is just a small part of their total sales. They sell a number of other products which cannot legally be used in the UK, such as FPV modules etc, so why the histrionics about one more? There are many other parts of the world where flying a pulse jet will create no noise problem whatsoever and I think too many here are adopting a 'dog in the manger' attitude......if we can't have one, no-one else should, either They are currently only available from the Global warehouse. If they stock them in the UK, then there may be some grounds to question the decision, although as far as I am aware it is not yet illegal to possess one in the UK! Aren't we just showing a bit of the green-eyed monster about the opportunity being presented to other, non-UK, modellers? Pete Hear, hear! Whilst using a pulse jet is clearly not an option here in the UK, I can appreciate that there are vast open spaces where it could be done without endangering life and limb elsewhere in the world. These things are however, a fascinating curiosity to display and pore over...just consider the number of un-run or unusable I/C engines there are in the world of aeromodelling. I'm sure that no-one expects an import ban on any vintage engines incapable of having a silencer fitted. Just imagine the uproar if nobody could run their 1949 ED Hunter or Oliver Tigre twins!! Obviously, these aren't in the same decibel league as a pulse jet, but I'm sure people get the drift. Buy the pulse jet, stick it in a case and admire it for what it is...alongside all the other aeromodelling curios! Just my 2d worth! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator Posted October 26, 2013 Share Posted October 26, 2013 The two Pete's make a fair point - on a world-wide basis there certainly are places where you could fly a pulse-jet. Fine. But I don't believe that, in the main, people are "having a go" at HK. I know I'm not! I think what people are responding to is the post on the first page from an (implied) UK based poster who claims to be plannng to buy and operate one. And here I think members of a UK based forum do have a duty to point out that the operation of RC pulse jets in the UK is so restricted by law that they are, to all practical intents and purposes, banned (as I detailled on the previous page). And that the same is almost certainly true of many of the countries that this forum is read in. Information, and sharing it, is a big part of why we're here. To help those that may not know when they might be headed for "stormy waters"! For me this is 100% about the fact that pulse jets have no real place on the UK RC scene and making sure that people know that before they spend the money - to whoever is selling them! BEB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrie Dav 2 Posted October 26, 2013 Share Posted October 26, 2013 I agree with the comments of Pete B and Pete Taylor. There are other countries in the world where this product could be used. I had one in 1954. If I remember correctly it was called a 'Dynajet'. Never flew it. Too chicken. Don't know what happened to it - can't remember. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Russell 2 Posted October 27, 2013 Share Posted October 27, 2013 Posted by Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 25/10/2013 00:12:52: Andrew, I'm afraid your comment would led me to believe you have never seen a pulse jet in operation! 1. Do you have the slightest idea just how loud these things are? Think of the loudest engine you have ever heard - its a whisper compared to one of these. There is an event held at Macrihanish, I think annually, where Pulse Jets are flown - they can be heard 8 miles away! 3. There is a raft of conditions you need to satisfy - including compulsary annual noise monitoring. Are you equipped for that? 4. Are you aware how dangerous they are! If the "fires go out" (and believe me that happens to best of Pulse Jet Jockeys so it will happen to you) the fuel doesn't stop and you have a large quantity of petrol flowing over a red hot motor - woof! 5. Finally and most importantly in my opinion, are you aware that they can only be flown untethered in the UK from a site with a special excemption certificate from the CAA? And, trust me, you wouldn't get one! Flying them off a tether without this excemption certificate is illegal - you would be liable for prosecution, so could the landowner be if s/he had given his/her permission. Oh - and case you're thinking "well they've got to catch me first" - well think again. The noise alone of that thing will attract the boys in blue from miles around. Dream on,... BEB Edited By Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 25/10/2013 00:14:55 1. I saw one years ago when I first started modelling what a sight and that noise was spectacular 2. No such requirements over here on the emerald isle 3. As with all jet aircraft there is the option of an explosion in a bad situation. I will accept it is heightened with a pulse jet 4. After having checked with the iaa there is no such requirements this side of the pound. As for the caa on your side being a microlight pilot that visits the uk on a regular basis and deals with the majority of sections within the Caa I feel it would be possible to gain an exemption with the right case put forward. I Wil however agree average joe who doesn't own a secluded airstrip or have the relative experience in the field of fast aircraft should not turn up at his local flying club and expect to use one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott finnie Posted October 27, 2013 Share Posted October 27, 2013 Man or no man i just am petrified of them, the noise they make, the way they change colour with the heat and the no throttle, i can fly at speed, i have an eflite habu 6s but has only had 3 flights since i prefer to enjoy my flights and love people watch me fly in a scale manner around the sky, these things just frighten me, found this clip too, no thanks **LINK** Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill_B Posted October 27, 2013 Share Posted October 27, 2013 Wow! Thanks for posting the link Pete, I've just got to have one of those! Oh, it's not to use, but to put into my collection. Scott, despite using petrol as the fuel, I don't believe Pulse Jets are any more dangerous than gas turbines, and they're accepted as the norm theses days. It makes me wince when I see people standing astride their models whilst running up the turbine. And as for those that stand behind the model, well they've clearly got no comprehension of what they're potentially letting themselves in for. If only they knew the consequences of a catastrophic failure they wouldn't stand anywhere near the rotating parts! BEB, I doubt 'the boys in blue' would have any kind of idea what the noise of a pulse jet is, they're either nearly all too young to know, or not into aero modelling. [Edited to remove potentially offensive references to other members] Edited By Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 27/10/2013 14:50:54 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete taylor Posted October 27, 2013 Author Share Posted October 27, 2013 Holy Moly!! Here's a possibility for the truly insane...a scale twin pulse jet powered fighter! Oh yes indeedy!! Edited By pete taylor on 27/10/2013 12:08:45 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatMc Posted October 27, 2013 Share Posted October 27, 2013 Posted by Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 25/10/2013 00:12:52: 5. Finally and most importantly in my opinion, are you aware that they can only be flown untethered in the UK from a site with a special excemption certificate from the CAA? And, trust me, you wouldn't get one! Flying them off a tether without this excemption certificate is illegal - you would be liable for prosecution, so could the landowner be if s/he had given his/her permission. Oh - and case you're thinking "well they've got to catch me first" - well think again. The noise alone of that thing will attract the boys in blue from miles around. BEB Where is there any documentation that says it's illegal to fly using a pulse jet ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben goodfellow 1 Posted October 27, 2013 Share Posted October 27, 2013 apart from the noise why is this different and these arnt illegal (are they) at least with pulse you could hear it coming (albeit from some miles away)?????**LINK** Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben goodfellow 1 Posted October 27, 2013 Share Posted October 27, 2013 dont know what this comps doing sorry bout the multiple posts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Bernard Posted October 27, 2013 Share Posted October 27, 2013 BEB mentioned the Woodvale incident and I remember it well. I think it was the first or second year that the Dutch team had been and at the time they were launching them off a bungee ramp set up between the main strip and the crowd line. I was there with my wife and son, who would only have been around 3 at the time and when the pulse jets were started, with being so close to the crowd, the noise and flames scared him, so my wife decided to take him over to the fairground. Just then the first model, (a needle nosed delta), was released and climbed to about 50' then turned into the crowd crashing just about where I thought my wife and son were. Never had that feeling of dread before and don't want it again. Fortunately my son had decided he wanted the loo first so they had changed direction and were nowhere near, and I don't think in the end anyone was hurt. Lucky. The following year they launched from the other side of the main runway! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator Posted October 27, 2013 Share Posted October 27, 2013 Posted by PatMc on 27/10/2013 12:43:38: Posted by Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 25/10/2013 00:12:52: 5. Finally and most importantly in my opinion, are you aware that they can only be flown untethered in the UK from a site with a special excemption certificate from the CAA? And, trust me, you wouldn't get one! Flying them off a tether without this excemption certificate is illegal - you would be liable for prosecution, so could the landowner be if s/he had given his/her permission. Oh - and case you're thinking "well they've got to catch me first" - well think again. The noise alone of that thing will attract the boys in blue from miles around. BEB Where is there any documentation that says it's illegal to fly using a pulse jet ? What I am saying Pat is that flying them RC without an CAA excemption certificate would be illegal. The CAA is a statutory body. Andrew - as you are not UK based its academic. But while it true that exceempion certificates can be obtained for some activies farly routinely frome the CAA - this isn't one of them! Ask the guys at Machrihanish - the only place in the UK that's been granted one in recent years as far as I know - mainly because its about as far from anywhere as you can get here! BEB BEB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatMc Posted October 27, 2013 Share Posted October 27, 2013 Posted by Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 27/10/2013 14:48:56: Posted by PatMc on 27/10/2013 12:43:38: Posted by Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 25/10/2013 00:12:52: 5. Finally and most importantly in my opinion, are you aware that they can only be flown untethered in the UK from a site with a special excemption certificate from the CAA? And, trust me, you wouldn't get one! Flying them off a tether without this excemption certificate is illegal - you would be liable for prosecution, so could the landowner be if s/he had given his/her permission. Oh - and case you're thinking "well they've got to catch me first" - well think again. The noise alone of that thing will attract the boys in blue from miles around. BEB Where is there any documentation that says it's illegal to fly using a pulse jet ? What I am saying Pat is that flying them RC without an CAA excemption certificate would be illegal. The CAA is a statutory body. Andrew - as you are not UK based its academic. But while it true that exceempion certificates can be obtained for some activies farly routinely frome the CAA - this isn't one of them! Ask the guys at Machrihanish - the only place in the UK that's been granted one in recent years as far as I know - mainly because its about as far from anywhere as you can get here! BEB BEB Where does the CAA say they need to issue any exemption certificate for flying a pulse jet powered model ? I don't think they do, can't see it in CAP658. AFAICS it's only the noise that makes them impractical to use legally in the UK but that has nothing to do with the CAA. Edited By PatMc on 27/10/2013 15:02:44 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Harris - Moderator Posted October 27, 2013 Share Posted October 27, 2013 I've been wondering the same thing but of course, CAP658 is only a guide to complying with the ANO and not a legal document. I'm wondering if the pulse jet is classified as a rocket engine by the ANO? These are subject to legal controls above specified thrust figures... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Christy Posted October 27, 2013 Share Posted October 27, 2013 I remember being told many years ago (mid-60s), that *free-flight* pulse jets were banned, and that was why they were only used on control-line models. And in the early 70s, I remember having a "discussion" with a park keeper about whether the small (-ish!) RC model I was flying was "free flight" or not. Perhaps that's where it comes from. The reason they were banned, according to my informant at the time, was that in the early 50s, a gentleman turned up at a flying site just outside London, and proceeded to assemble a very large free-flight delta from the back of his vintage Bentley. The regulars watched bemused as he proceeded to light the pulse-jet mounted on top of the thing, then watching in disbelief as it vanished downwind doing Warp 7! Apparently, a few miles down-wind, it hit and completely demolished a factory chimney! The ban swiftly followed! Of course this may be urban legend, and my informant has long gone to the great flying field in the sky, but since he had owned a pulse jet himself - and found himself up before the beak for "causing a public nuisance" for firing it up in an attic overlooking a square where holiday makers were boarding buses for sightseeing trips of Dartmoor - he certainly had good reason to be wary of them! I'm told that some of the OAPs boarding the buses thought World War Three had started, and Old Bill was NOT amused! -- Pete Edited By Peter Christy on 27/10/2013 16:02:53 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatMc Posted October 27, 2013 Share Posted October 27, 2013 I have a couple of memories of experience with pulse jets from my youth. The first was when I was about 17 living in Dundee. One of my C/L flying mates, who had a lot more cash than the rest of us, got a Dynajet sent over from the US. He waited until a day that his parents were out & 4 of us piled into his dad's potting shed/greenhouse. He fixed the Dynajet on a bench with the pipe pointing out of a window & we all took up position to start the thing not really knowing what to expect. I had to crank the handle on a small generator (bit like a megger) for the spark, one mate on the airpump, one ready with a stirrup pump in a bucket of water (fire extinguisher!) & the owner in charge of the fuel feed, ready to adjust the needle valve. I don't think any of us really believed it would actually start up (I certainly didn't) but it was good for laugh. The Dynajet burst into life almost immediately, the fuel metering must have been just about spot on because there was very little bright flame & it kept running. in such a relatively confined space the noise was unbelievable for the fraction of a second that I stayed in the shed & was still deafening from outside, the others were right behind me. No one had disconnected the fuel so the Dynajet kept running but luckily the fuel tubing dropped off, probably due to the vibration, after a few very long seconds. We then quickly tidied things away, grabbed some models & headed out to the flying field before any of his neighbours sussed where the racket had come from. It was the last time I saw the Dynajet & doubt that it was ever fired up again after that. The second time was a couple of years later when I'd moved to Tyneside. A mate who was an apprentice engineer decided to make a pulse jet as a tech school project. He constructed a Brauner pulse jet from dimensioned drawings given in the Model Aero Engine Encyclopaedia (I still have a copy). When the pulse jet was finished a group of us took it to a spot well away from any houses to give it a test run. It was mounted with metal straps to a lump of wood which in turn was clamped to a convenient fence-post. After a number of false starts it finally came on (very loud) song & seemed OK for about 8 or 10 seconds. Then the note changed, we noticed the tail pipe was drooping between the mounting straps at the same time bulging like a snake that had just swallowed a large egg. The engine stopped quite suddenly there was a lot of spectacular bright flames & IIRC the pipe burst open at it’s seam. It turned out that my mate had had to use whatever stainless steel he could get his hands on for the tail pipe which turned out to be an unsuitable grade. I binned the C/L model I’d nearly completed in anticipation & haven’t laid hands on a pulse jet since though many years later I was sorely tempted to buy one that I saw ready mounted on a model hanging up for sale in a S/H junk shop in N. Shields. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Green Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 So much for Hobby King selling world wide and the PJ was just in their catalog. I have just received an email saying: Hi Andy, the HobbyKing Red Head Pulse Jet is a retro flash back to the days of modeling where nearly everything was an experiment and the possibilities were endless. Anyone that has ever seen the old pulse jets have instantly had ideas (some smart, some not so smart) of strapping one to something. Now is your opportunity! Someone is going to buy one and try to use it. Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thunderstreak.keith Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 PatMc, just read your 2 experiences of the jet in the shed lark. Until then I was really feeling cheesed off but I must say I havnt stopped laffing. The mrs came in asked wot was so funny and I just pointed to the screen. Her comment? "you and your toys why dont you get a proper hobby" thanks for the laff matey, I can just picture it now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martyn K Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 I k now that I should really frown on this but my inner anorak is saying "Buy it now". Keep me away from posts like this - its worse than profanity Martyn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedster Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thunderstreak.keith Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 not sure but i thought this started off as a serious subject, now it is bordering on seriously funny. with lafter. Ive got a 48" virgin challenger boat currently fitted with an SC60 w/c. I wonder iff ............... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Chambers Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 That looks perfectly safe and reliable. Very tempting to get one to strap to something... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monz Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RmEtfQ81zA Edited By Monique Lyons on 03/01/2014 23:59:07 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazza58 Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 Oh Monique..great vid thank you. The only thing that puzzles me is...why did everyone run for cover when the engine cut.... Gazza Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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