Colin Leighfield Posted December 28, 2013 Share Posted December 28, 2013 I've got the bits ready to do it, will start it as soon as I can. I'm surprised though we're not seeing more having a go yet, probably to do with finishing other projects first, which is my reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Jones Posted December 28, 2013 Author Share Posted December 28, 2013 Hi , I have not got a lot done due to work and family commitments i am afraid , I am at the point of pondering what to do and how to go about it . As i said early i am using this one as a test bed for some experimenting , I could not decide which one or two motors to use , So for now i have one up front which i think is 120 watt motor i will see how that goes then i have a small high speed 2600 kv motor to go on the back . As well as my experiment to go inside , So at this point i can not decide if i should make the cockpit removable . And i would agree with you in the fact the battery bay is a bit flexible considering that is the point in which one needs to hold the model for launch . I may make a launch Dolly . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Tubb Posted December 28, 2013 Share Posted December 28, 2013 thought mine looked good but you,ve upstaged me looking really nice and I like the idea of twin motors once I know it flies and behaves this is a must do conversion along with 4s methinks, my canopy was made from blue foam sanded to shape so not removeable (cos I could,nt wait for one too arrive) I also went for 4 digital servo setup which to be fair does,nt look that nice underneath but allows a multitude of mixing variations for a later date anyway will get back to you once it has flown with full report on it ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Tubb Posted December 28, 2013 Share Posted December 28, 2013 also I am intrigued by the line "my experiment inside" and come on colin mate get a move on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Jones Posted December 28, 2013 Author Share Posted December 28, 2013 Hi Bill , Hopefully mine will look a lot better when it`s finished , Twin motors should be able to give me 240 watts of power but with one motor going clockwise and the other going anti clockwise , which should counter act any torque . And yes there is a good reason why i made the body wider , I have played with a few Canards in the past and discovered a inherent problem with them , which i am hoping to resolve . But i am keeping stum so as not to end up with egg on my face if it does not work . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Leighfield Posted December 29, 2013 Share Posted December 29, 2013 Fascinating stuff. Have a heart Bill, I've always been a bit slow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Tubb Posted December 29, 2013 Share Posted December 29, 2013 sorry colin patience is something I am learning with this hobby... Stephen I am a little worried is there something I should know? something you are keeping to yourself eh! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Bastow Posted December 29, 2013 Share Posted December 29, 2013 I have just started cutting balsa for an attempt at this. I was wondering if anyone has any ideas why the fins are where they are? I am concidering moving them outboard a little to where the wingtip join is. This way they will be clear of the elevon position and will also strengthen this joint. Any ideas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Leighfield Posted December 29, 2013 Share Posted December 29, 2013 Cliff, with this lay-out, my natural inclination would be to put them at the wing-tips. However, Nigel knows what he's doing, perhaps he will comment on this? I'm interested in his thoughts about making the foreplane all-flying and when I do mine, I might have a go at that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Bastow Posted December 29, 2013 Share Posted December 29, 2013 Hi Colin, Yes im sure Nigel knows his stuff, I just thought it would be easier. If you look in my photos I have another canard with fins near the tips and this gives no problems. wing flutter etc and that too is a flat plate wing. Incidently that also has a small elevator on the foreplane and this is more than adequate, ( loops on a sixpence ) so im not sure a flying foreplane would be worth the effort. Might be interesting though! Incidently I note your correct use of the term foreplane, When I trained as an aircraft engineer, my instructor was adamant that only birds have wings. Aircraft have mainplanes and tailplanes. Hence monoplane, biplane ect. Though how we get rotary or fixed wing I dont know. lol He also got angry if we called the control column a joy stick.lol I await to see any developments you make with interest. cheers Cliff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Jones Posted December 29, 2013 Author Share Posted December 29, 2013 Hi Cliff , I am by no means an expert on these matters however my opinion is ; As you have already flown a Canard with the fins on the wing tips it would suggest that there is no reason why you could not do the same on this model . I can only think that Nigel put them there to prevent accidental damage or to aid looks , Wing lets usually improve the performance of the wing . And i can see no improvement by making the foreplane a tilting one . Ailerons ,elevators, rudders, flaps all create drag , which would slow a plane down and in extreme cases to the point the the wing could stall out , so a tilting foreplane would in theory have less drag . But due to the gap between the foreplane and the fuselage there would be more drag created . On a model anyway as we could not get them to work with the precision needed . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Jones Posted December 29, 2013 Author Share Posted December 29, 2013 Hi Bill , No there is nothing i am keeping from you in regards to the flying of canards as small models . It is just in my experience with Canards they are happy to fly at a fixed speed due to the nature of there setup . The foreplane is designed to stall before the main wing inorder to correct its flight . So by nature you can only fly at the speeds that the foreplane will cope with , so going slower or faster creates its own problems . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Leighfield Posted December 29, 2013 Share Posted December 29, 2013 Stephen. I wouldn't disagree with your thoughts on an all-flying foreplane, it's hard to see how it would offer any improvement and it certainly wouldn't need much movement! However, I think I might try it anyway, just for the sake of it. At the least, it will be interesting. (As Cliff said)! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Bastow Posted December 30, 2013 Share Posted December 30, 2013 Its just my experience but my canard is happy at quite a wide speed range from a walking pace to fast. I think I have read somewhere that it depends on wether it is a lifting canard or not but I dont really know. I note that on can do the canard is set at 3 degrees so I asume it is a lifting one as is my canard. I await developments with interest. Cliff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMG Posted December 30, 2013 Share Posted December 30, 2013 Ordered the `Can-Doo power package` from 4-Max; it has arrived safe and well with a very quick turnaround. I will now wait a longer before starting the construction in order to read the `pioneers` mods and tips in this thread. Will also be interested to see what the EDF version looks like and may well have a go at that too. Have a few repairs to finish off in the meantime, plus starting the covering on my Magnatilla (Solartex). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Jones Posted January 2, 2014 Author Share Posted January 2, 2014 It`s Finally Covered , Pictures not very good I'm afraid . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Leighfield Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 That looks suitably dangerous Stephen, nice one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Jones Posted January 2, 2014 Author Share Posted January 2, 2014 Posted by Colin Leighfield on 02/01/2014 21:04:03: That looks suitably dangerous Stephen, nice one. How do you mean Dangerous , Colin . That Wizzy thing up front . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Leighfield Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 No Stephen, dangeously good. I like the moody colour scheme and I reckon you've got yourself a rocket ship there. I'm assuming that you are going to fly it with two motors, front and rear? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Jones 2 Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 Hi Guys, I'm making one too... All going to plan at present with no issues. Some personal small mods from thr plan design: 1. Main wing fins slotted into the wing rather than the cocktail sticks 2. Front nose section slightly deeper by 10 mm to allow my choice of battery to fit 3. Elevator servo mounting in the cockpit area, again to allow for main battery fitment 4. Canopy from balsa, hollowed out. Power will be a 2200kv motor as fitted to all my depron parkjets. Build pics tomorrow Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riverlandgirl. Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 A bit slow on it I'm afraid, only just caught up with this thread! Good reading through it all. For what it's worth I quite like the idea of an all flying fore plane (with dual rates), I think there is a relationship between speed and fore plane incidence. My bleriot cunard is a slow flyer with plenty of incidence and rather large elevators. I trim it , hands off, at half throttle, opening the throttle requires an increase in down trim to maintain hands off. All the planes are looking great, shall enjoy continuing to follow this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Jones Posted January 2, 2014 Author Share Posted January 2, 2014 Hi , all, As this one will be for me to experiment on , i will run it on the one motor 1st to see how it copes with the change in low to high speed , so the motor i have up front is 150 watt to 200 watt 1200Kv , if the on-line specs are right ( kms 2212/09 ) and as it swings a large prop should get away from a hand launch ok . Then i intend to put a high kv motor on the back , and again see how it copes with the change in speed . Does the change in weight also change anything , wing loading . Then as Riverlandgirl has already mentioned see if i can correct the pitching problem . That i also have had to cope with on past models . So my intention is to find out if it is the wing section at fault , ie the foreplane gets more lift due to the extra speed , Now on my previous models my wing section was a flat bottom with a curved top much like you're standard trainer wing , which will of course generate more lift the faster it goes . So would a wing that has no airfoil like on this one cope any better ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Jones Posted January 3, 2014 Author Share Posted January 3, 2014 Hi Steve Jones 2 , I look forward too seeing yours , A few notes to look out for , The Fin , i have had my fins come off mid air on high speed models in the past and once bitten twice shy , And slotting the wings has proved to be very strong in the past , but i am using a thicker wing . Also the Hatch area does in my opinion need extra support to stop it flexing while holding the model , i put this on the hatch cover its self so as no to restrict the space to slide things in but when the hatch is in place the support is there . Also before adding sheeting top and bottom make sure you can connect the motor up correctly because once the fuzz is complete you will find it hard to make any connections . Weather the motor is at the front or the back or both . It is so tempting to rush straight though the build as it looks so easy you forget to check things 1st . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Jones 2 Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 So the build pic so far as promised... Whole front wing section, added some triangular at the front former to stop the battery making a bid for freedom with a sudden 'stop' landing Close up of the elevator servo installation, moved to keep the battery compartment completely empty. All this will be hidden under the hollowed out balsa canopy... Control horn is a silver soldered brass strip on the wire... Alieron servo mounts have also been strengthened with 1/16 on the inside and 1/64 outside... Fins tongued into the main wing are now rock solid.... Underneath view show the tongues.. Power set up is the 2200kv with the mount moved forward a bit to align the prop centre to the plan. Again some small triangular added for security to avoid the motor mount 'breaking away' Back at the front, with the servo relocated there is ample space for batteries, large or small.... Finally a shot of the airframe so far... Tomorrow wing gluing and top decking... Edited By Steve Jones 2 on 03/01/2014 20:27:04 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Tubb Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 All looking good chaps still no maiden down here. its a bit like living in a car wash at the moment but will update a.s.a.p. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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