The FrSky revolution - very worried men?

[Masher]

I agree John, but I thought the Taranis case was one from the JR range? Any road up I really like the feel of it and already my much loved DX8 feels............. well..............redundant!

Edited By Masher on 01/06/2015 14:19:42

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

I'm o.k with the box myself Masher, I just tightened the stick tension up. Some seem to think it's a plastic feel and look, win those folk over with a more expensive case maybe ?

John

[Dave Hopkin]

And the margins on Taranis are probably much the same as any system with in-house designed firmware - Why? because Frsky have opted to use Open Source Firmware, or at least a slightly modified version of it, that saves them a huge cost in software development and testing - yes they may well have to pay the copyright owner of OpenTX a fee per XT (of course the copyright owner may opt to waive payment) but the cost saving will be considerable

[Frank Skilbeck]

Dave, from what I understand Frsky pay nothing for the Open Tx software (but I may not be correct), it's not theirs, the Open Tx team developed it run on the Taranis (and the Taranis was built so this could happen). But the Open Tx software is open source so anybody can develop the Open Tx software, but if they do they should acknowledge the source and also make their developments available to the community so anybody can use it. The main reason that the Horus won't appear with Open Tx is because the Open Tx team don't have the time/resources to port the Open Tx system to the Horus, it's also mentioned on another forum that the X9E (Tray Taranis) is slightly delayed due to delays in updating the Taranis Open Tx to run on the X9E.

This is going to be a challenge to the Open Tx team to keep their software current with the latest hardware and sensors etc all in their spare time, bring in several different spec'd transmitters and it just increases the workload.

Edited By Frank Skilbeck on 01/06/2015 15:26:26

[Dave Hopkin]

Hi Frank

Opensource Software is covered by a "GNU General Public Licence", there are various variants of this but they all allow for unrestricted non-commercial usage, but where the software is used commercially (as is the case of Taranis) the copyright owner has the option to apply a "royalty" charge when the software is used for commercial reasons

I have no idea if the OpenTX team earn revenue from Taranis (I would be surprised if they didnt) but its a common public misconception that "free" software is always free

I was involved in the negotiations surrounding this when (within a multinational) some bright spark in India decided to package CCleaner within the standard Corporate Laptop Build and distributed about 7000 copies of this - had they been on private laptop that would not have been an issue, but as they were corporate laptops there was a potential cost of getting on for £400,000 (or a law suit)!

[Daithi O Buitigh]

The 'free' regarding software is as Stallman described it "free as in speech but not as in beer".

However, if FrSky are distributing the firmware at no additional cost (i.e., you are paying for the hardware and they are giving an out of date version of the firmware) then there are no royalties due. It's only if they actually sell it that this comes into play. If you decide you want to replace OpenTX with ER9X you aren';t expected to pay. You can make a donation if you like, but that's up to you

[MattyB]

Posted by Frank Skilbeck on 01/06/2015 15:25:46:

...The main reason that the Horus won't appear with Open Tx is because the Open Tx team don't have the time/resources to port the Open Tx system to the Horus, it's also mentioned on another forum that the X9E (Tray Taranis) is slightly delayed due to delays in updating the Taranis Open Tx to run on the X9E.

This is going to be a challenge to the Open Tx team to keep their software current with the latest hardware and sensors etc all in their spare time, bring in several different spec'd transmitters and it just increases the workload.

I agree keeping up with the demand they have created is going to be a challenge for the OoenTX team, but I don't think that is the reason HORUS will not ship with it. FrSky want their own closed source "traditional canned mixer" firmware because

a) That's what the vast majority of their target "big brand" users know and prefer, and;

b) Developing any front end for OpenTX that delivers a traditional JR/Futaba/Spek style would have to be put back into the public domain under the terms of the GNU license. This would be a very valuable FrSky funded asset for the competition to use. Not likely!

Result - we get a TX that is far more like the competituon than the Taranis before it. Personally I think this makes a lot of commercial sense, but there is no doubt it will make a subset of existing FrSky user grumpy that their perfect set featuring premium hardware and OpenTX still does not exist.

Edited By MattyB on 01/06/2015 21:57:25

[Dave Hopkin]

Posted by Daithi O Buitigh on 01/06/2015 16:04:35:

The 'free' regarding software is as Stallman described it "free as in speech but not as in beer".

However, if FrSky are distributing the firmware at no additional cost (i.e., you are paying for the hardware and they are giving an out of date version of the firmware) then there are no royalties due. It's only if they actually sell it that this comes into play. If you decide you want to replace OpenTX with ER9X you aren';t expected to pay. You can make a donation if you like, but that's up to you

Absolutely NOT.... the GNU Licence is not a version specific agreement, it is a legally binding contract- it permits non-commercial use of the product and may or may not permit end user modification, it also confers the rights to levy a fee for commercial users - whether FrSky carry the cost themselves or pass it on is irrelevant to the terms on the Licence Contract.

If you decide (as an end user) to replace OpenTX with ER9X you dont pay a licence fee because you are not using it in a commercial environment - the original sale of the Taranis TX with OpenTX loaded would constitute a clear "intent to use" and the fact that the TX was SOLD indicates its a commercial transaction hence subject to licence fees if the OpenTX IP owner choose to apply them.

If the TX is later sold on as a second hand item complete with OpenTX then no Licence Fees are due because they have already been paid - The was tested in Germany when a company advertised several hundred Microsoft Licences as a second hand sale - Microsoft took them to court as they claimed the licences were "non transferable" however an EU court disagreed.

Software Licencing is about the "right to use" and the "Intent to Use" - ie installation of the product or elements of the product are what counts - when I was doing software audits we would scan the PC's on the network (usually using something like SMS) and look for the signature files from an installation, whether the product was ever used didnt matter at all.

[Simon Chambers]

Posted by Dave Hopkin on 01/06/2015 23:10:26:

Absolutely NOT.... the GNU Licence is not a version specific agreement, it is a legally binding contract- it permits non-commercial use of the product and may or may not permit end user modification, it also confers the rights to levy a fee for commercial users - whether FrSky carry the cost themselves or pass it on is irrelevant to the terms on the Licence Contract.

 

Eh? Not sure quite what GNU GPL you've been reading, but there is no terms about commercial use or anything about paying royalties/licence fees/etc in the way your saying. In fact there is nothing to stop someone selling it, as long as the original and any modifications on the source code are released. In fact this happens very often...

For example:

Netgear router Linux source

Sky set-top boxes

This is the licence that OpenTX is released under.

Also bare in mind that the developers on OpenTX aren't the original developers who worked on it. Nor is it the only Open Transmitter firmware around - admittedly almost all are from the same base code.

Si.

Edited By Simon Chambers on 01/06/2015 23:27:40